Appeals panel has overturned Bountygate player suspensions

[lurker1965]

This would be true, if it were what actually happened. However, Goodell did provide evidence.

That is not how it'll be spun. Oh, legally you are right, I'm talking PR.

 

[ausbacker]

That didn't hold up in court:singing: and proved Goodell over stepped his
Authority. I believe that is what the judge is saying.

You need to read this decision more closely if that's what you think pherein. Enough has been demonstrated with Vilma's stupid tweet. He's got no idea what today means.

 

[lurker1965]

Wouldn't it be up to TEAMS to not violate cap rules, thus leaving players not punishable for that type of violation?

For example, Denver as a team got punished for giving Elway and others under-the-table money in the 90s, but those players didn't get punished also.

Interesting Question whether suspending the coach was a team punishment. I'd say it is not and we should be talking lost draft picks.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Fascinating, and complex.

So that basic ruling relates to the fact that the players themselves cannot be punished for the "pay" aspect of the pool, but the "intent" aspect. The rules pointed out that they could not participate in such a pool, as I recall. Just participating was wrong. But apparently the 'jurisdiction' for that penalty is the court, not the league. Very very odd.

If they must be punished by the league only for intent, not the rules as previously communicated, which simply said participation, then, as others have noted, how do you prove intent? Yes, I participated in the pool. Yes, that player got injured. But I did not intend to injure him, I would never do that. Sort of a 'he thought, she thought' argument.

Further, since the players are now active, do they go on the 53? Do the teams have to release players? Do they get an exemption?

All these players will have their salaries guaranteed. If Vilma, for example, gets suspended for 16 games - or maybe reduced to say 12 games, will he be suspended without pay? Presumably a suspension will over-ride the veteran guarantee, but that's one more issue to argue.

The whole 'the league can't punish for participating in a pay-to-injure pool' which was previously discussed related to this case is very complex.

If, in the end, these players are vindicated, I don't think that's a good thing for the league. Like Goodell or not, if lawyers can get involved like this and argue against suspensions for violations of the CBA, in a dangerous game like football -- not sure I really like that direction. What about steroids? Where else does this lead? Do players now routinely hire a lawyer for the next suspension?

The players can be punished for both, just not by the same guy. Pay for play (absent any bounty implications) is a CBA infraction and that punishment is up to Burbank (the arbitrator). Bounty as a conspiracy to injure is still Goodell's purview under the conduct policy.

Luckily it hasn't come to the point you lament just yet because no court has ruled. This was part of the process under the CBA, so the appeals panel of arbitrators under the CBA (two retired judges and a law school professor) have ruled. There rulings are (theoretically) binding. That is why the league kept telling the NO judge this was out of her jurisdiction. These kinds of rulings, whether appealed to a panel or Goodell are supposed to be binding. Otherwise there might as well not be any rules.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Interesting detail from the CBA, available on the NFLPA website:



It's a big document, and that is specific to 'conduct detrimental to Club' not 'detrimental to the League.' But an interesting line if it is relevant.

It's not relevant. That covers team discipline, not league discipline. Teams are limited to a 4 game suspension. The league has no such limitation.

 

[DaBruinz]

Yeah but Goodell had them dead to rights, right some of you

I can't believe people on this board defended that assclown after what he did to this franchise.

What part of :"Panel finds that bounty conduct both constituted payment in violation of CBA and payment with intent to injure other players." is so hard for you to understand?? The vacating of the suspensions makes no sense in light of them saying that. But, yeah, you just keep beating the Anti-Goodell drum like you know what you're talking about.

 

[TheBeers]

Still to this day i kinda wish the Pats had fought back on unaprovedfilminglocationgate.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Goodell could simply notify all parties that his original penalty was strictly for conduct and not cap. He probably won't and will probably try to no avail to broker a settlement with reduced suspensions for the conduct and let Burbank fine them for the cap violations. Those aren't suspendable offenses (which probably makes the appeals and all moot from a common sense standpoint...).

Then they can all go back to court and Ginger can rule the evidence or the process insufficient and the league can appeal that to the 5th circuit who can rule it's a CBA matter. Whole process should take another several months and allow Kessler to bank a couple of million in fees. The only decision that will matter to the rest of us is whether or not a commissioner can rule on anything or if every player who gets suspended can just hire Kessler and Co to get them off.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

good thing the legend in his own mindell isn't fighting any acrimonious battles on any other fronts....or am I forgetting something....

Don't forget the CBA where Kraft had to come in and save the day while his wife was on her deathbed because things got so acrimonious with that douche Goodell. He is such a tool.

 

[ausbacker]

Don't forget the CBA where Kraft had to come in and save the day while his wife was on her deathbed because things got so acrimonious with that douche Goodell. He is such a tool.

If you think Goodell is a tool I'd love to read your thoughts on DeMaurice Smith.

 

[TheBeers]

If you think Goodell is a tool I'd love to read your thoughts on DeMaurice Smith.

Goodell is a tool.. and a power hungry rule inventing basterd.. D. Smith is absolutely useless!

 

[PatsFanSince74]

After letting the dust settle for a couple of hours, it looks to me like the Appeals Panel felt there was "something rotten in...Denmark," but that the original penalties on the players were not sufficiently justified. So, the panel is more or less giving everybody a chance to reach an agreement that acknowledges that Bounties are a no no but that Goodell overreached with the extent of his suspensions.

Hopefully, there are enough grownups around to let that happen.

 

[Deus Irae]

“Nothing in today’s decision contradicts any of the facts found in the investigation into this matter, or absolves any player of responsibility for conduct detrimental,” Pash writes. “Nor does the decision in any way suggest what discipline would be appropriate for conduct that lies within the authority of the Commissioner. Per the panel’s direction, the Commissioner will promptly reconsider the matter and make a determination of the appropriate discipline consistent with the standards set forth in today’s decision. All clubs will be advised when that decision is made.”

League’s internal memo suggests that suspensions will be re-issued | ProFootballTalk

 

[pherein]

It is easily misconstrued - best take on it is from @sportlawguy

"To sum up: Panel held this involved "conduct detrimental" & illegal payments. Commish only has power to punish for conduct detrimental. "

No offense but Im not quite really to absorb my views and opinions of the American Legal system from tweeting law guys, and that includes ESPIN.

http://video-embed.nola.com/service...AAAAPmbRMTE~,BWCCSzT6s9ksP29K0TEsITNwjG28SO_r


.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

If you think Goodell is a tool I'd love to read your thoughts on DeMaurice Smith.

I don't care about DeMaurice Smith and I don't particularly care about this ruling, the Saints or message board members expert interpretations of what this all means. The put it bluntly, I simply don't care.

That being said, Goodell is a tool.

 

[Deus Irae]

No offense but Im not quite really to absorb my views and opinions of the American Legal system from tweeting law guys, and that includes ESPIN.

Bottom line:

You celebrated way too early.
The players aren't getting off yet.
Goodell will probably just re-issue the same, or similar, suspensions.
The appeals panel has indicated that they'll be receptive to backing that move if it should reach them again.
The Federal judge didn't rule, and that was the more important case.

 

[pherein]

Bottom line:

You celebrated way too early.
The players aren't getting off yet.
Goodell will probably just re-issue the same, or similar, suspensions.
The appeals panel has indicated that they'll be receptive to backing that move if it should reach them again.
The Federal judge didn't rule, and that was the more important case.

Im not celebrating at all. I just love seeing Roger finally get a slap in the face he had a long time coming for how he handled NE and other teams.:rocker: He's incompetent in my view.

 

[ausbacker]

I don't care about DeMaurice Smith and I don't particularly care about this ruling, the Saints or message board members expert interpretations of what this all means. The put it bluntly, I simply don't care.

That being said, Goodell is a tool.

For someone with a self described low level of care you sure seem to have a strong opinion on Goodell.

I have an elevated level of interest in Roger Goodell and his performance as NFL Commissioner. He's a rather important figure in the game.

 

[ausbacker]

Im not celebrating at all. I just love seeing Roger finally get a slap in the face he had a long time coming for how he handled NE and other teams.:rocker: He's incompetent in my view.

I've read many articles this morning pherein. I've formed my opinion on the matter at this stage of proceedings. I have no idea how you arrived at the conclusion that Goodell has been slapped in the face.

I agree with Deus on this one. Ultimately, the ones who are going to look stupid are the Saints players with all their congratulatory victory based Tweets. Someone needs to point out to me what exactly it is that they've won? Goodell retains all the power and the process is going to go back through him (unless the NFLPA can invent a new CBA out of fresh air).

Today's ruling proves to me the little attention people take in properly reading articles.

 

[pherein]

I've read many articles this morning pherein. I've formed my opinion on the matter at this stage of proceedings. I have no idea how you arrived at the conclusion that Goodell has been slapped in the face.

I agree with Deus on this one. Ultimately, the ones who are going to look stupid are the Saints players with all their congratulatory victory based Tweets. Someone needs to point out to me what exactly it is that they've won? Goodell retains all the power and the process is going to go back through him (unless the NFLPA can invent a new CBA out of fresh air).

Today's ruling proves to me the little attention people take in properly reading articles.

The articles are just that, and written by guys that hardly write even good sports journalism. Though it has many minus's being dyslexic has taught me long ago to not believe what I see in print. Im not sure these articles you speak of understand much of what is going on, seeing as they didn't see this coming either, or that the eagles would suck.
Im comfortable waiting for the final ruling on the case because Ive seen the evidence, nothing else really matters. Well except we get Wil Smith for a few games ..YAHOO