Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by Rob0729, Feb 1, 2010.
From Profootball Weekly:
ProFootballWeekly.com - Bucs likely to let Bryant test free-agent market
i think we should take him if he's around in the second round. however, i feel that WR is more of a need, so our first round pick should be allotted for this. Offensive tackle too is important. If we sign peppers, then Graham is less important. I'd rather have a jeremy maclin, sidney rice or deshaun jackson type of receiver if he's available at 22.
I think defense, defense, and more defense is the Pats top priorities. Few WRs make an impact their rookie season and by the time they might, Welker will be back.
The Pats need to rebuild their LB corp which was the best part of their team during the Super Bowl years and a weakness now. If the Pats could somehow swing it (not likely) I would like to see the Pats add Peppers, Dansby, and another OLB with the first pick.
I'm more interested in the part about the Bucs being willing to let Antonio Bryant test the waters as a UFA.
Sign Bryant and Karlos Dansby as UFAs, resign Wilfork and Bodden, and tender or re-sign Mankins and Goskowski. Then add a couple of pass rushing DE/OLBs through the draft. I prefer Dunlap, but Graham would be fine. Who we get will be much more effective if we shore up the middle of our defense first.
Leadership was a problem for this team last year, that is why I am against signing Bryant.
I want an offensive weapon with our first rounder, be it a TE, RB or WR. I think the offensive was very good last year but sometimes standards slipped, but i think with Brady it's easy to fix. The D will take more than one good offseason to fix, theres a lot more holes, thats why i like D in round 2.
Options at WR was a bigger problem, which is why I'm for it.
I saw the leadership vacuum as being bigger on defense than on offense. But I understand your point.
normally i would agree but i think the league is becoming more and more offensive oriented. i'm not sure if the old formula for winning SBs would work anymore. the team has a lot of holes to fill - i think brandon graham would be available in round 2. we could use one of our 3 second rounders on him or brandon spikes. we can then use another second rounder on a RB like Jonathan Dwyer, use our first rounder on a WR or TE like Jermaine Gresham and our 3rd second rounder on an OT or G. Then we can sign Peppers and/or Dansby and hope and pray that our secondary gets better.
People are forgetting that the offensive is getting older. Moss isn't the same and will probably be let go after next year unless he has an amazing year. Welker we have no idea if he'll ever be the same, let alone play next season. The offensive line is aging. Light will be a free agent next season and Neal is 33 and may call it quits. Kevin Faulk isn't young anymore either.
WR was a huge problem, but we have lots of early picks and can get a good WR in the draft. It's not like rookies can't come in and play well. Desean Jackson, Eddie Royal, Jeremy Maclin, even someone like a Donnie Avery.
Sidney Rice was taken at #44, DeSean Jackson at #49. Other 2nd rounders in recent years have included Eddie Royal, Steve Smith (NYG), Greg Jennings, Vincent Jackson, Devery Henderson, Anquan Boldin, Deion Branch, Chad Ochocinco.
From 2000 thru 2006, 19 WRs taken in the 2nd round panned out and 10 busted; 16 WRs from the 1st round panned out and 15 busted.
Of the 19 2nd rounders who panned out, 3 would probably be considered "stars". Of the 16 1st rounders who panned out, 8 re now stars.
By "panned out", I mean guys who stuck around and became consistent significant contributors for at least three seasons at the #1, #2 or #3 WR spot for their team.
Seems to me like this draft class is deep in WRs who are likely to at least become significant #3s. IOW, unless you think we need to accept the higher "bust rate" in order to try to get a potential "star" WR, we're probably better off taking a WR in the second.
IMHO, we have two "stars" already. What we really need is two or three legitimate #3 WRs.
as Mayo stated Dansby would be a good pick up in fa. another one I like is Ryans (Restricted) to be put near mayo...Draft Dunlap or Paul and go from there..
It's exactly like rookies can't come in and play well. When have we had a rookie WR as a major contributor? Julian Edelman and Deion Branch have been the most successful.
We already have 2 young WRs in Edelman and Tate. We don't need more youngsters. And we have other needs to address with the draft.
This guy is my binky. I think he's exactly what the Patriots need at OLB. He brings fire and aggression to the field.
Other than Dez Bryant, there are no WRs worth taking in the first round, so...
Wait until the 2nd or 3rd round. If you take Dez in the first, I would not be opposed to making trades for extra picks (i.e. 2011 to 2010) that would allow you to grab another WR in the 3rd.
The Patriots may decide that there's more of a premium on OLB/DEs.
No one can really distinguish between LaFell, Damian Williams, Gilyard, Tate, Thomas and a host of others that will be looked at as 2nd rounders. Therefore, go to the premium pick in the first round.
If only we signed Dansby, the Patriots could focus on needs instead of worrying about ILB.
Except Tate has had to ACL injuries and Edelman is a slot guy.
So we're back to last year's offense. Besides the Colts young receivers, we've seen Mike Wallace, Johnny Knox and Deon Butler play well last year.
And the year before there were more mid-rounders that came in and performed.
I believe we need quantity more than quality, so if the Patriots land a guy opposite Moss and slot Edelman, then the 4th kid is not going to see double coverage. That helps a kid like Collie immensely with the Colts. If there was no Dallas Clark or Garcon there, Collie would not have had as much of an impact, but it's the numbers of weapons that make the difference.
With four capable guys going out for passes in today's NFL, one of them will get open within 3 seconds of the snap.
I agree upstater,
edelman, moss, and who after that?
Tate, Benn, Williams from Tulane, Gilyard would give Brady a better choice of weapons due to the fact we have whiffed in our fa signing at wr.
I still think signing TO for one season with an option for a second is a good idea. He'd be the perfect player to line up on the other side opposite Moss. We could then focus on the defense with our first few picks and then work on our WR core a little deeper in the draft.
I believe Brandon Graham won the MVP award in the Senior Bowl last week. We could do a lot worse. :idea2:
In recent years, some wideouts have had success in their rookie years. Desean Jackson, Eddie Royal, Jeremy Maclin, Percy Harvin, Donnie Avery, Johnny Knox, Austin Collie, Hakeem Nicks, Mike Wallace, Davone Bess, Michael Crabtree, Mohammed Massoqui...just to name a few. These are all guys we could've drafted, and MOST of them (except for Crabtree) share one thing in common - which is that they aren't your prototypical #1 wideout in terms of size or 40 speed, but are known for their ability to separate. They are quick, they can run routes and get open.
The Patriots will have plenty of opportunity to draft a guy like that this year who could come in and be a huge improvement over Aiken. Heck, Tate - if he didn't get hurt again - might've been just that. I like how Gilyard looks, and if he's there with one of our 2nd rounders, I might hope we pull the trigger on that.
Most of the guys you listed were not first round picks. Many weren't even drafted in the second or third round. Only a few of them were first round value after the fact even if they weren't taken in the first round.
The Pats can get a WR in the later rounds. The Pats don't need to spend a first on a WR. WR depth was the problem this year and you don't get WR depth in the first or second round. With Welker a question mark, a starter may be needed, but Edelman with a year under his belt and an offseason working with Brady might make him 90-95% of Welker in year two.
I still think the Pats' top priority is the front seven of the defense. They need a DE, two OLBs, and an ILB. The Pats need to stop relying on the offense to win games.
But do you need to use a high draft pick or a draft pick at all. Jabbar Gaffney was excellent depth and he was a journeyman WR.
true, I am thinking one of the second round picks for a wr. we need speed at wr and there is a ton of it coming out in this draft.
I agree - we don't need the first two rounds to address wide receiver, but if the right guy comes across (Gilyard, Tate) in an area we deem good value, I'd be all for it. Our #3 WR - or lack thereof - ultimately is what did us in this year. Don't get me wrong, the defense needs huge improvements, and our offense - as a whole - put up great #'s. But if our 2007 offense played with this 2009 defense, I think there's a decent chance we're playing this Sunday. If the difference between scoring 38 points a game and in the mid 20's is finding a couple more adequate wide receivers, then I say do that at all costs - whether its draft, free agency, or whatever it is.
Again, I agree with the notion that we can find that in rounds 3-5, or even beyond. But I consider WR3 as big a need as any position on this squad.
And don't forget: Edelman, as good as he looked, is a bit of an unknown, as is Tate. Moss' contract is up at the end of 2010, and Welker's future is cloudy. This team needs to invest in wide receiver long-term, not just short-term.
Precisely. To Gilyard, I'd add Shipley, Jeremy Williams, Andre Roberts, Freddie Barnes, Blair White and a few others. I say, take 'em when you can get 'em. Shipley or Gilyard in the 2nd; one of the others in the 4th.
As, Rob0729 wrote, we need depth at WR. You look at Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, etc. and they all have a bunch of guys who can seriously perform at #3 (not just ST studs who can, maybe, catch occasionally in a pinch). Whether they line up outside, in the slot, wherever - all these QBs always have multiple legitimate receiving threats - not just two - on the field at all times.
If we can sign Boldin in FA in addition, I'm all for it, but the more's the merrier and Boldin alone doesn't solve the problem of depth no matter how well he works out.
we definitely need a game breaking receiver. Moss plays when he wants to play. Welker is not going to be back for a while. After that, we don't have anyone really. Just watching DeSean Jackson last night made me a bit jealous. He's the kind of guy that could get 10 TDs in a season.
I have to agree. Edelman is best suited for slot duty so asking a rookie to come in and start at the X or the Z (realizing that Moss can play either) is just asking too much.
We need a veteran. I would love for Branch to be that guy.
I think Branch is a great low-cost option. He knows the system and has rapport with Brady. I'd go with Antonio Bryant as my #1 option IF the Pats check out his character issues carefully, only because I think he has the talent to be an ideal #2 opposite Moss. But if he doesn't check out, or the cost is too high, then Branch is my preferred backup right now.
I'd love to see Branch back in a Patriots uniform, and I've felt that way for quite a while.
I hope that it doesn't end the same way my desire to see Ty Law back in a Pats uniform did, of course.
Branch, I can see being a realistic option, and it would be a nice way of the Pats FO showing Brady some support in a year when he could potentially reach free agency. I'm sure Brady has to be jealous of Manning's situations - they draft an offensive skill player in the first round every year, they retain every good wideout and offensive weapon they have - unless they've already found his replacement via the draft. The continuity Manning has had is insane.
The last time Brady had that same level of continuity in his receiving group, we won back to back championships. And that was back when we were 5 deep at wideout. We need to get that deep at the position again.
How about both? Really, if I were the Pats, as I said above, I'd want to get 5 deep at wideout this year. And I mean 5 guys who can really play the position, and who aren't on the roster for ST purposes (sorry Sam Aiken, I know you do the best you can...)
Right now, you have Moss (outside) & Edelman (slot). You can't plan for Welker or Tate. To me, that leaves the Patriots in need of 3 wide receivers.
And to me - its all about value. What could possibly be better value for the Patriots than increasing production from their #3 wideout? When they had Stallworth/Gaffney as a 3/4, this offense set damn near every record there is. We're talking about a difference of 10-14 points a game in making ONE or TWO personnel moves. Sure, the defense has major holes, but at best, they only shave a few points per game off of last season's performance.
Legitimate #3 and #4 wideouts make this team better faster than any other move they can make. I hope BB realizes that and doesn't go into the season with unknowns at the position. The upside of Brady & Moss with 3 other guys who can catch the ball is just too damn high to not shore up this spot!
Agree 100%. I was impressed with both Williams and Roberts this past weekend, also.
Same here. Graham would be a good "thumper" type of OLB.
Yeah. Here we go. Or maybe he was playing hurt all year. Whatever. In a "down" year, Moss got 13 TDs, the 5th most receiving yards and had a higher completion percentage than Roddy White, Michael Crabtree, Chad Ochocinco or . . . DeSean Jackson.
The "we don't have anyone really" part is the most important issue. We don't necessarily need a game-breaker right now, we just need a bunch of guys who can consistently catch and move the chains - true #3WRs, NOT just some special teamers who MIGHT be able to come up with a reception once in a blue moon. If we've got that covered, with Brady throwing, ANY of them could become a game-breaker at any time. Even Aiken had a couple long ones, remember?
Separate names with a comma.