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Anyone Questioning the Value of a Good Kicker Now?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Grizzafted, Oct 17, 2006.

  1. Grizzafted

    Grizzafted Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    So Leinart looks as much like Brady as anyone I've seen in the last five years, takes the Arizona Cardinals 50 yards down the field on arguably a top-three defensive unit, brings the ball to the 20 a la SBs XVIII and XVI, and.....bam, kicker blows it from 40 yards out.

    Do you trust Gostkowski in that situation? Who is Brady if he has Gostowski kicking for him the last few years? Maybe 1-1 in the Superbowl?

    I've said it before, and last night punctuated the point: letting Vinatieri go was a horrible move, worse than Branch, Law, or McGinest. I really hope that doesn't come back to bite the Pats in the ass, especially considering that this year's team is not exactly built for speed.

    *bye week panic attack over*
    (but, seriously, I'm not seeing good things out of their kicking game. Can he make that 40 yarder? He's going to have to at least once or twice this year.)
     
  2. Bella*chick

    Bella*chick Addicted to the light

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    #12 Jersey

    Wasn't Rackers the best kicker in the league last year?

    Anyway, there is no way BB would be stupid enough to kick the damn FG with 1 minute left, especially when his QB is efficiently moving the ball down the field. The Cardinals playcalling was so atrocious I still can't even believe what a saw after a night's sleep.
     
  3. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Yeah he was. And the snap was bad. Sure, the holder caught it and got it down. But the snap was high which throws off the timing. The second I saw the holder have to reach fairly high for the snap I knew the kick was in serious jeopardy.
     
  4. zippo59

    zippo59 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    The Cardinals had a meltdown one offense with two fumbles returned for TD's. THAT is why they lost, not because some kicker missed a field goal.

    He should have made the kick. If anything this proves that spending tons on your kicker (Rackers is one of the highest paid in the league) is maybe not the best thing to do. It's not like AV has never missed important kicks. I trust that Gostkowski will develop into a very good kicker. But if the Pats offense implodes like the Cardinals did I will not be blaming Gostkowski for the loss.
     
  5. Grizzafted

    Grizzafted Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Yeah I agree here, in a major way. That 2nd and 2 had PA endzone shot written all over it. It's amazing to me how these coaches all seem to turtle up right at the crucual moment when the game is at their fingertips.

    But the issue here isn't, "did the Cards fold the tent and start playing like Special Olympians with 15 minutes left" (yes they did), it's "can your kicker make the big kick under the lights in a huge game." AV might have missed some kicks here and there, but when the pressure got intense, he got focused. You can't coach that. It's one in a million, and it has more to do with your parents and your childhood than it does anything else.

    You could see it in Rackers face last night that he was shaky before the kick.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2006
  6. bosfan

    bosfan On the Game Day Roster

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    #12 Jersey

    Great game, it was good to be able to get into a game that didn't involve the Pats. Thats NFL football - it ain't over till its over, or is it when the fat lady sings? Anyway FUN game........
     
  7. Alk

    Alk In the Starting Line-Up

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    You bet I'm questioning the value of a good kicker. I just watched the best kicker from last season shank a chipshot game winning fg. I still don't miss Adam.
     
  8. ironwasp

    ironwasp Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    40 yards is never a chip shot. Especially with a game on the line.
     
  9. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    Gostkowski is the man.
     
  10. Willie55

    Willie55 In the Starting Line-Up

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    You could???
     
  11. minvardar

    minvardar Practice Squad Player

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    The Pats did not let him go. How many times do people have to say it. He wanted to leave. He wanted to play indoors to extend his career. So you want to pay him more than 3 million per year (with plenty of guaranteed money) which is what it would have taken to keep him here?

    And why does he want all that guaranteed money? Maybe because he knows his health is not what it once was. He was having back issues before he left the team which affected his distance and accuracy. And now he is hurt again. Him leaving the team has been a good thing at this point.
     
  12. Bella*chick

    Bella*chick Addicted to the light

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    #12 Jersey

    I don't think I will ever forget the disgust and amazement I was in last night. Who was it, Theisman or even Barkley who was saying the Cards (earlier in the game) were playing scared and should be going for 7 not 3. They were so 100% dead on, I actually don't begrudge Theisman being in the booth for once. The Cards were scared ****less! And they deserved to lose the game.

    THe thing is, what AV had is so rare. But the title of this thread should not be "questioning the value of a good kicker." Because Rackers IS a good kicker, and other good kickers, like Vanderjerk, routinely blow pressure kicks. The thread should be "Anyone questioning what we once had in Adam." (and I don't think anyone does) Because THAT was indeed special. However, Adam is getting old. He is not even on the field most of the time with his new team. We couldn't have Adam kicking with us forever.

    Gostkowski is still a blank page to many of us. I'm interested to see how it plays out.
     
  13. jman924

    jman924 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Yeah. What has Adam been doing the last three weeks? Oh that's right, warming the pine and watching Martin Grammatica kick.
    Wow! what were we thinking? We should have kept here and paid him $3mil so he could watch the rest of the team play!:bricks:
     
  14. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What is the purpose of this thread?
     
  15. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #91 Jersey

    The lesson to be learned from last night's game is a simple one. EVEN a great kicker will win games at the gun.....and sometimes, they will miss with the game on the line. AV is known as the most clutch kicker in NFL history, and last time I remember, he missed 2 FG in the same Superbowl (2003) and if, I'm not mistaken, his last kick for the Pats (Denver 2006) WAS A MISS.

    As far as Gotkowski goes, here is what I know for CERTAIN - Over his career he will make some very big kicks..... and during the same time, he will MISS some big kicks. How long his career lasts here will depend on his ratio between makes and misses (;) ), but BOTH WILL OCCUR.

    EVERY KICKER MISSES BIG KICKS !!!
     
  16. Halifax_Pats_Fan

    Halifax_Pats_Fan In the Starting Line-Up

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    -------

    I never ever got that argument, re: your first paragraph. If the kicker makes the kick they win the game, is this not true? I know teams that lose close games may play poorly for whatever reason early on in the game, or in key parts, however, they could still WIN with a successful kick. I think a lot of emphasis should be placed on a good kicker, they can WIN games. It is us NE fans that should know this more than anyone. ALso, let's give Gostkowski some time to develop his own career, he could end up, hopefully, writing his own successful chapter in Patriots history.

    I also agree with Theisman, as mush as he is a boob sometimes, they should not have started to run the ball when Arizona's QB had them driving. Play calling was very poor (hindsight is also 20-20...:))...but their passing offense was moving the ball, why run?? Why?

    Your point was probably that you should never let it come down to a kicker to bail you out...however that is the nature of the beast, you need a good kicker. I hope we don't kick ourselves in the ***** for letting VInateri go. You gotta let the kid (Gostkowski) prove himself...I hope he just steps in the shoes of our last kicker and is just as successful...
     
  17. dhamz

    dhamz In the Starting Line-Up

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    One can only conclude that it is crazy to pay big $ for a kicker and there is no value in it. It is a position where historically guys who are great suddenly start to struggle overnight. The Bears paid dirt for Gould who is all of the sudden the premier kicker in the league. Rackers is as good as it gets and makes top $ and it still doesn't help Arizona win games.

    Oh wait, you were arguing the opposite? That it makes sense to pay big $ for a kicker?
     
  18. Bella*chick

    Bella*chick Addicted to the light

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    #12 Jersey

    I honestly have no idea. I guess that a good kicker is a good thing to have? I thought that is why we drafted one.

    If it's supposed to be another "Why did let AV go" thread, I seriously do NOT understand how an injured AV helps out anyone. The AV talk needs to stop. This is not 2001.
     
  19. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    You act as if AV never missed a kick. He got Pete Carroll fired, when he missed kicks in losses in 98 and 99 that would have put the Patriots into the playoffs both years.

    He missed kicks in at least two SBs. You only remember four big kicks in a career with an average of about 80%, that included plenty of misses.

    IMHO, Gostkowski has already demonstrated that he is a stronger, better kicker than AV is NOW. Nothing stands still, and Adam was definitely losing range last couple of seasons. It was obvious to anyone that looked dispassionately.

    Comparing Adam Vinatieri to Steve Gostkowski this season, Steve is outkicking Adam. Plus Adam is injured with multiple injuries, which is to be sort of expected with an older player.

    Unlike other players, I maintain that a kicker's preseason stats do apply, except for blocked kicks perhaps. In that case, SG is 14 of 15 with two blocks for 14 of 17 ( 87.5%) and 18 for 18 in PATs. That doesn't even include his very high KO rating for touchbacks.
     
  20. Grizzafted

    Grizzafted Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Why does there need to be a "point" to the thread? It's a discussion board, nobody's forcing you to read anything. Get back to work if you don't like it.

    I do think that Vinatieri was worth the money. I've seen Gostowski so far shanking kicks in pressure situations. The preseason doesn't apply here, because the point is that a kicker that can react to the pressure of making that kick in the final .30 of a game is rare, and its one of those things that you should hold onto when you find it.

    We'll see. Maybe I'm wrong. I HOPE I'm wrong. If he hits some clutch FG or if the Pats win every playoff game they play in by 13, I'll be the dummy.

    Kickers that go 41 for 45 in a season are not especially rare. The guys that hit the game winners over and over again are. I disagree with the decision not to re-sign Vinatieri. I only make the post because last night looked like how a few of the Pats legendary playoff victories could have turned out if we hadn't had such magic in the kicking game.

    Good luck Ghost. Prove me wrong.
     

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