Anyone noticed Tavon Wilson lately?

[RayClay]

While I dodge the rotten tomatoes...

He hasn't played much, some garbage time. Of course he plays special teams, but I just watch the games and sometimes I'll notice a good play, hard hit, surprising speed, and I've noticed him more than once.

Of course this isn't an argument about draft position. No doubt other players drafted around that time stepped right in as starters. Others were busts - never to be heard from again - but at least they went before Mel Kiper said they should, so that's OK.

Back to Wilson. He's big (6' 215) fast and played corner, safety and slot in college. As contracts go, he stands to go into his prime, because he's a special teams stalwart, as a very affordable option, if he's learned from his 2nd year mistakes. Since we scored on Chung 2.0 and Harmon is decent and young, it seems, with good attitudes and improvement, that we're growing a decent, affordable safety squad regardless of free agent exigencies.

Since I expect a rotten tomato or two on this, I'd like to mention this article which says Wilson had 7 visits besides the Patriots and who appointed the people who picked Johnny Manziell to be number one through five and a downright bargain at 22 anyway?

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/7865727/tavon-wilson-reach-round-2-not-bill-belichick

Lots of players in the league now who showed little for 2-3 years and we praise the teams smart enough to see the diamond in the rough. I see a big maybe for the future, but that's because I'm not smart enough to tell a late bloomer from a clunker anyway.

Thoughts on this, or the less heralded members of the secondary going forward?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

As far as I'm concerned, not hearing about tavin Wilson is a good thing

 

[everlong]

I was watching the football life episode on McCardel. and Smith and had forgotten how Smith spent two years in Dallas without a catch including one half season on IR with a broken leg. Went to the expansion Jags and had all of 20 something catches year three only to end his career with over 800 catches and 12,000 yards.

I'm certainly not predicting that trajectory for Wilson but just making the point that people want to bail on prospects in general too quickly. Hightower before the end of last year was already being put in that category and now people are pissed about who got more all pro votes than he did.

I agree with the initial premise that when given the opportunity on defense he looks competent. Who knows maybe he'll carve out a role yet.

 

[goheels22002]

Wilson was a team captain and solid performer in the Big Ten at Illinois who got labeled as a poor player as a Patriots rookie because he was thrust into a bad secondary in 2012.

He's looked good this year in dime packages and coming up on the run. He's gotten better tackling in space and looks like a pro safety.

People are so quick to label these guys, but certain positions like defensive back and quarterback require two to four years for guys to develop into good players. Wilson is in his third year, surrounded by extraordinary veterans from whom he can learn a lot.

I like the OP's comparison to Chung. Similar developmental arc. Arrington also improved and earned a new contract as a niche slot corner. I'm optimistic about Wilson.

 

[Ring 6]

Wilson and Harmon have both been playing meaningful snaps just not a ton of them. Both are doing well in the limited role.

 

[McClusky]

As long as Tavon isn't in a cover 2 I really like him as a player. His run stuffing skills are quite good, he actually had a very good preseason as well. If Chung doesn't return next year I'd be comfortable with Tavon cannabalizing some of his role with Harmon taking the more traditional safety reps.

 

[Big-T]

If you look at the stats Andy Johnson posted in another thread he's been great in pass coverage (112 snaps, 12 targets, 6 catches IIRC). He's also had a few pretty nice QB presures over the last few weeks too.

Some players take time to develop, some need to be out in a situation they're comfortable - Wilson could have been both.

 

[Gronkandez]

JAG....

 

[patchick]

Fun Draft Fact:

The four safeties drafted after Tavon Wilson in 2012 are all out of the league.


That obviously doesn't make Wilson a great pick, but I think it helps explain why they might have made the choice. It's also a great reminder that over-focusing on positional need in the draft is often a long-term mistake. (Remember how "inexcusable" it was that the Patriots failed to reach for a tight end in this years TE-deprived draft?)

 

[doesntmatter1]

From his rookie season I have always liked his linebacker skills and ability to cover tight ends. The problem is we have no idea if he has improved his deep ball coverage(the reason people hate him in the first place after Sidney Rice schooled him).

 

[mayoclinic]

Wilson was a team captain and solid performer in the Big Ten at Illinois who got labeled as a poor player as a Patriots rookie because he was thrust into a bad secondary in 2012.

He's looked good this year in dime packages and coming up on the run. He's gotten better tackling in space and looks like a pro safety.

People are so quick to label these guys, but certain positions like defensive back and quarterback require two to four years for guys to develop into good players. Wilson is in his third year, surrounded by extraordinary veterans from whom he can learn a lot.

I like the OP's comparison to Chung. Similar developmental arc. Arrington also improved and earned a new contract as a niche slot corner. I'm optimistic about Wilson.

I posted this elsewhere, in response to this post from Captain Stone:

What possible plan included drafting Tavon Feckin Wilson with the 48th overall pick?

Glad you asked. I think it's clear that the Pats valued Wilson's versatility and potential to play the "star" position as a hybrid LB/S (a role that they used him in from the outset). Compare Wilson's measurables with those of Kenny Vaccaro, another player who fits that role (and plays it for the Saints), taken #15 overall the next year:

Wilson: 5' 11 3/4", 205#; 4.52 40, 1.60 10-split; 4.16SS, 7.043C; 32" VJ, 10'4" BJ, 17 reps BP
Vaccaro: 6' 0" 214#; 4.59 40, 1.62 10-split; 4.06 SS, 6.783C; 38" VJ, 10'1" BJ, 15 reps BP

Both guys played similar roles in college, one in the Big 10, one in the Big 12. BB noted Wilson's versatility after he made the pick:

"He played plenty. You can see him plenty at Illinois," Belichick said. "You can see him against whoever you want to see him against: all the Big Ten schools, Arizona State, teams that throw the ball. He's playing corner, he's playing safety, he's playing the inside positions, the nickel position, the dime position -- Michigan State, they're a good passing team; Michigan, they're a spread-out offense team. There's a lot of passing in that conference, Northwestern, all those teams."

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/7865727/tavon-wilson-reach-round-2-not-bill-belichick

Wilson may not have developed as hoped, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a plan that made sense. The line between success and failure is also a thin one: Vaccaro struggled this season when he tried to play more of a true strong safety role, rather than being used as a hybrid:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/po...caro-rob-ryan-both-prefer-vaccaro-in-add-role

There aren't that many prospects with the kind of versatility and skill set that Wilson had coming out, so I can see why the Pats may have valued him. Obviously, it hasn't worked out so far, though he's shown some flashes. But it's the same kind of hybrid role that Pat Chung played well against Denver earlier this year. Chung at #34 in 2009 was considered a mild reach, too; he played a similar hybrid role as the "rover" in Oregon's defense - again, it seems that the Pats liked that kind of versatility. Chung, Wilson and Ebner all have the raw talent and potential to play that role, but it seems to be a hard one to do well. My guess is that it's an important role for BB, and he'll keep trying to fill it until he finds someone who sticks.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...the-fo-knows-what-theyre-doing.1114051/page-2 (post #31)

Vaccaro has struggled this year (and I'd love to pick him up if he becomes available). I think that this kind of a hybrid role isn't so easy to fill, and it's not surprising to me that guys like Chung and Wilson have taken some time to develop. It's also clear that guys who fit this role may struggle if asked to take on duties outside of their skill set, like playing the deep safety. That's just not a role that Wilson was well suited to do.

 

[varjao]

I'm ok with him being our 8th Free Safety in the depth chart.

 

[zipster9]

Another draft mistake. BillB surprised everyone to pick him in 2nd round.

Tavon didnt even attend NFL combine...

Base Signing Cap Hit Dead Cap
2015 $965,166 $376,891 $1,342,057 $376,891
2016 UFA

 

[OhExaulted1]

While I dodge the rotten tomatoes...

He hasn't played much, some garbage time. Of course he plays special teams, but I just watch the games and sometimes I'll notice a good play, hard hit, surprising speed, and I've noticed him more than once.

Of course this isn't an argument about draft position. No doubt other players drafted around that time stepped right in as starters. Others were busts - never to be heard from again - but at least they went before Mel Kiper said they should, so that's OK.

Back to Wilson. He's big (6' 215) fast and played corner, safety and slot in college. As contracts go, he stands to go into his prime, because he's a special teams stalwart, as a very affordable option, if he's learned from his 2nd year mistakes. Since we scored on Chung 2.0 and Harmon is decent and young, it seems, with good attitudes and improvement, that we're growing a decent, affordable safety squad regardless of free agent exigencies.

Since I expect a rotten tomato or two on this, I'd like to mention this article which says Wilson had 7 visits besides the Patriots and who appointed the people who picked Johnny Manziell to be number one through five and a downright bargain at 22 anyway?

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/7865727/tavon-wilson-reach-round-2-not-bill-belichick

Lots of players in the league now who showed little for 2-3 years and we praise the teams smart enough to see the diamond in the rough. I see a big maybe for the future, but that's because I'm not smart enough to tell a late bloomer from a clunker anyway.

Thoughts on this, or the less heralded members of the secondary going forward?

Slater got an extension as a pure ST guy. He's had 286 snaps on the ST units, best for 2nd on the team. Wilson is 1st with 324, and I think it's well documented how much the impotance of ST's play Belichick puts emphasis on.

He's as much a safety as Slater is a WR. A back-up for when a guy is banged up or needs a breather. His role on this team seems to be clearly defined IMO.

 

[mayoclinic]

Tavon didnt even attend NFL combine...

Neither did Sebastian Vollmer.

 

[mayoclinic]

Slater got an extension as a pure ST guy. He's had 286 snaps on the ST units, best for 2nd on the team. Wilson is 1st with 324, and I think it's well documented how much the impotance of ST's play Belichick puts emphasis on.

He's as much a safety as Slater is a WR. A back-up for when a guy is banged up or needs a breather. His role on this team seems to be clearly defined IMO.

I can't completely agree with you. Slater really isn't a WR at all, and never has been. He doesn't have a clear position. Wilson has a clear position - it's just a question of whether he can break through. He's shown signs of doing that, so I don't think it's yet written that he is a STer only.

 

[Brady6]

If you look at the stats Andy Johnson posted in another thread he's been great in pass coverage (112 snaps, 12 targets, 6 catches IIRC). He's also had a few pretty nice QB presures over the last few weeks too.

Some players take time to develop, some need to be out in a situation they're comfortable - Wilson could have been both.

He played a lot of CB in college so playing safety is new for him to some degree. I like Wilson, think he can be a solid depth player and play meaningful snaps. I don't see any pro bowls in his future but that's the case for many players. He can be a solid pro, he worked out with Revis and McCourty this past offseason, which indicates to me he is committed to his craft.

 

[Brady6]

Fun Draft Fact:

The four safeties drafted after Tavon Wilson in 2012 are all out of the league.


That obviously doesn't make Wilson a great pick, but I think it helps explain why they might have made the choice. It's also a great reminder that over-focusing on positional need in the draft is often a long-term mistake. (Remember how "inexcusable" it was that the Patriots failed to reach for a tight end in this years TE-deprived draft?)

George Iloka is the starting strong safety for the Bengals.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Iloka

 

[Oswlek]

Serious question, if Tavon becomes a consistent 30-40% snap guy and an big 4 special teamer, is he still a bust?

 

[reneluar]

He is improving every season, he is known as Tavon "Black Ebner" Wilson.