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Anyone miss the old Patriots?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by ManningOverratedHick, Nov 15, 2008.

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  1. ManningOverratedHick

    ManningOverratedHick Guest

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    I miss the old, physical, "no one respects us" Patriots. I miss Ty Law picking off Kurt Warner in his prime. I miss David Patten, David Givens, and even Daniel Graham. I liked when people feared the Patriots and knew that when they came to Foxboro, they were going to get a wall-balanced, physical game and teams were afraid to catch the ball against our defenders. Now teams look forward to shredding our secondary and running over Bruschi and Vrabel.

    It's not just that they were winning SBs, it was the way they were winning. I've never had a more fun time in my life watching a team than watching the 2001-2004 Pats. Sure, Brady turning into an all-time great to possibly the greatest ever not named Montana has been great to watch, but I miss his 3,700 28 TD, 14 INT seasons with Corey Dillon running physically for 1,600 yards.

    This new Patriots team, Brady, Cassel, whoever at quarterback, is just "another good team." A team that other teams feel they can beat any week, especially now that Brady is out. Even with a 100% healthy Brady, teams feel like the defense is a soft, swiss cheese defense with a lot of holes. We have possibly the two most overrated players in the game in Matt "Turnstile" Light and Richard Seymour, two guys that get by more on their name than their playing ability and an offensive coordinator who makes Mike Martz look like Einstein.

    I miss the efficient, non-flashy Brady, rough, physical defense, original playcalling days. Does that mean I don't watch the games anymore? No. But this team has basically become what we hated for all these years...the Colts. And like the Colts, we have no championships to show for it.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 15, 2008
  2. fair catch fryar

    fair catch fryar Rookie

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    No Jersey Selected

    Great. Another sweet thread.:eek:
  3. Jackson 2

    Jackson 2 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Who's next?
  4. Disco Volante

    Disco Volante Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    This team won 18 games last year and is currently one game behind the division lead despite having one of the worst years of injuries in NFL history.

    How the hell has this team become the Colts? By having the best offensive season in NFL history and a 4th ranked defense last year? This season has absolutely no comparison to the Colts, especially considering we have a #2 QB starting.

    Whoever is at QB? Tom Brady was our QB last year and this team was 35 seconds away from winning every single game along with being the most feared team in NFL history. Matt Cassel is at QB and we're 6-4 playoff contender team that looks mortal again.

    This "team" you're talking about has only had one full season together (2007) and is currently without perhaps the greatest QB's in NFL history. Making them 0/1 for SB wins, despite winning 18 games last year and being the AFC representative, not too shabby. Also the last time I checked the Colts do indeed have a championship.
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2008
  5. MrTibbs

    MrTibbs Rookie

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    The rules changed the game. No team has a physical secondary anymore. No more mauling guys down the field. The only thing the Patriots need is a big hitting safety.

    You need guys who are quick and can react to the plays at hand. Good tacklers also doesn't hurt.
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2008
  6. SeymourTrophies

    SeymourTrophies Rookie

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    #93 Jersey

    Wes Welker is the essence of what you described. I'll never forget the Bucs preseason game. When cassel threw a pick, Wes Welker flew across the field to lay Ruud out.

    Our defense used to be good, not because we had the best players, but because we were fundamentally sound. We can't make a damned tackle anymore. I miss that a lot.
  7. Gwedd

    Gwedd PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Now see, I don't get the comparison to the Colts.

    If we were the Colts, we wouldn't be a team. We'd be a collection of me-firsters sharing a common uniform, but not much else. We'd have a QB who throws everyone else under the bus when he has a bad day. We'd have a hollow shell of a coach masquerading as a saint, and living the title role of "The Emperor's New Clothes". We'd have a psycho WR who keeps a gun in a bucket at his chop shop, and prefers to sit alone and brood on the end of a bench rather than support the rest of his team.

    No thanks. The Patriots are a blue-collar team, not a blue-blood team, and that's fine with me.
  8. Patslifer

    Patslifer Banned

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    I agree......
  9. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    This is truth. We are like the Colts and many sound like Colts fans now.

    We lose the close and big games, and then blame them on execution, or a few players, or some other lame excuse. Our D is soft, our offense is explosive but predictable and stoppable in key moments.

    Been happening for years now.
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    Last edited: Nov 16, 2008
  10. TommyBrady12

    TommyBrady12 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    THis is pretty much what I said on this board over the summer. However, a lot of people jumped all over me. It was, TommyBrady12, you're stupid because we were 2:39 from winning the super bowl. it's painfully obvious that the team needs to be more physical. I knew that making one or two tweaks on D was not going to help the team. I think this team went a step in the right direction with getting Mayo and all the other young guys on D, but they are just that - young.

    And our oline is getting beaten routinely these days. Not enough physical guys protecting the quarterback.

    also, we need tight end help. thomas and watson both suck. neither of them are a threat. if could get a good TE, then moss and welker could get more open.

    the truth is the Giants are what the pats used to be. they are not getting anything flashy from Eli, he is just playing the way Tommy used to. Also, their D is unbelievable. The only difference between the old pats and the current giants is brandon jacobs, who can't be stopped. the guy is getting like 5-6 yards on every carry. I hate to say it but getting Moss on the team has made us too much like the colts. We have to have a strong run game first and foremost. that is new england patriots football. we are not the colts nor the dallas cowboys. we are an east coast team that plays east coast football. i never liked the makeup of last year's team - not enough grit and too flashy.
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2008
  11. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Well these guys can't stay in their prime forever guys. There is no such thing as a fountain of youth - guys like Bruschi, Harrison, Ted Johnson, Willie Mac, Vrabel, Dillon, Troy, etc aren't going to help us as much or at all this year. There IS such thing as a salary cap otherwise we'd have an elite CB in Asante Samuel still here to start alongside Hobbs and possibly a dominant pass rusher in Rosey Colvin coming off the PUP list. This is what every great team, even our mighty Patriots, must go through. Be thankful we have 3 rings and may get a few more when the new guys develop.

    At this point, most teams are rebuilding. We are a strong playoff contendor even without our leader and HOF QB.
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2008
  12. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    That is the largest pile of manure I have seen..you never liked the line up of a team that went 18-1?? you are either a complete troll..or know zilch about the game...nuff from you...go follow another team...maybe the NY football giants who you seem to go gaga over..
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2008
  13. Lampshade

    Lampshade Rookie

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    Well your tune has changed since saying you lost interest in the Pats as soon as Brady went down. Seems you want to complain no matter what is happening.
  14. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Jeez, way to go overboard. Yes, this defense is not nearly as good as the one we had from 2001-2004 and it was the defense, not the offense that won the Pats championships (see 2003 where the defense had to carry the offense to the Super Bowl). But this team hasn't become the Colts. The Colts usually crumbled in the playoffs. The Pats were one game last year from perfection and beat two hot teams on the way to the Super Bowl last year.

    Unlike the Colts, this team hasn't crumbled without their franchise QB. Imagine what the Colts' record would be this year if they didn't have Manning. They are a few plays away from being 2-7 as it is. Without Manning, they would be 2-7 or 1-8. That is how much they rely on their QB to win. The Pats are still in the hunt for the division title with a QB learning on the job.

    It is clear that this defense needs to be improved to continue to be a legitimate Super Bowl contender. The transistion seems to be under way with infusion of young talent like Mayo and Guyton. I think the Pats need one solid CB (it could end up being Wheatley), a hard hitting SS, and maybe another pass rushing OLB to make this defense dominant again.

    On offense, I think nothing much needs to be improved or chanced. The Pats can have an offense like they had last year as long as the defense is solid and can step up if the offense struggles.
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2008
  15. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    The only difference between the 2001-2004 Patriots and the 2006-2008 Patriots is the amount of time on the clock and number of timeouts Brady had left after the defense folded in key games. I say this not to be harsh, but to hopefully end the complete idolization of those defenses and that era.


    I think a lot of folks forget that in the 01 Super Bowl, the Pats gave up a long sustained drive to the Rams that caused a tie, and it looked like we were done. Brady saved the day.

    Or that in the 03 Super Bowl, the defense gave up the lead twice in the game. And granted Tom threw a pick, but he along w his wideouts, once again, came back and saved the game.

    Or that in the 04 Super Bowl, the defense once again gave up a 4th quarter TD that in this case cut the lead to 3.

    In 06 AFCCG, the Pats had the lead with 2:17 to go...and the defense gave up another long TD. Brady had only 1 minute and no timeouts left to work with to get a TD, not enough time.

    In 08, well, we all know what happened there. Brady and Moss led them on a drive that should've won the game, the defense turned around and let the Giants march down the field. Brady got the ball back with 29 seconds and no timeouts.

    See a pattern? The same thing that the Patriots of the last two years are getting killed for on these boards (giving up TDs at the end of the game) was also something that the 01-04 Patriots had a problem with. The end result just wasn't the same thanks to circumstance and heroics by Brady, Branch, Brown, Vinatieri and others.

    Fans here definitely idolize the 01-04 defense. It was great, I loved watching them play, but we've had some great defenses since. I think largely the main difference has been circumstance. If Brady gets the ball back with 1:30 and some timeouts vs the Colts, we probably win that AFCCG and then the next Super Bowl. If the Giants had scored with more than 30 ticks on the clock, Brady turns around and probably ties up the game.
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2008
  16. Ice Cold Bruschi

    Ice Cold Bruschi Rookie

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    Matt Light has been a franchise left tackle one of the most consistent in the game how can you possibly diss him?
  17. MassPats38

    MassPats38 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    How wistful. The good old days. Take a look at 2004 and the scores and yardage (2nd ranked in scores, 9th ranked in yardage in a bend but don't break scheme) and tell me other than 2003 when the Pats were lights out on defense. And 2003 was the year prior to the "emphasis" on calling excessive receiver contact. Law was doing it then, and he does it now, so I suspect the officials were told to watch for that in the second half and then called him on it. The game has changed somewhat. Ruminate over why these Pats can't be the same as the tough, hard-nosed 4 time champion Steelers. It is called history, not a change in philosophy based only on a desire to imitate another team.

    Teams always respect the Pats because the organization succeeds under virtually any circumstances. The team is starting tons of second options this year and is still in the playoff hunt. The Pats made the playoffs in 2005 even after they lost Bruschi, the heart of the defense then, to a stroke for much of the season. The team made it to the AFC Championship game in 2006 despite having no legitimate number 1 receiver.

    Since you do not play the game and have not talked to players, the only possible decrease in respect between then and now is you as a fan toward the team. Real fans can still appreciate what this team is doing despite a record-setting injury trend that lesser teams would see an excuse to start their "wait until next year" mantra. Everybody wanted youth, and now there is plenty of youth on the team, which includes all the rookie mistakes young players make in a game. Those rookies will only get better, so I for one will not be pining away for the days of yore, when life was good. I am enjoying what I see now.
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2008
  18. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't know if he is as good as you make him, but he is clearly a heck of a lot better than the original poster stated. He is not a turnstyle. He is an above average LT. Since even above average LTs are so hard to find in this league, I will take him.
  19. ScottieC

    ScottieC Rookie

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    Yes, I miss the old Patriots: Brady and Harrison - The Old Patriots.
  20. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    This argument applies to the offensive coordinator as well.
    In major games after our defense gave up points, Charlie Weis still called the right plays to win the game.

    We have had dominant defenses, the past 3 years, but when the offense is called upon to score Josh McDaniels gets way too predictable, does not adjust, and calls HORRIBLE game-ending drives. Anyone remember the superbowl where we just called 3 straight slow developing bombs to end the game?
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