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Anyone miss Asante Samuel? Anyone still wants Lito?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by DisgruntledTunaFan, Sep 16, 2008.

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  1. DisgruntledTunaFan

    DisgruntledTunaFan Rookie

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    Other than that gift INT, both looked pretty lackluster tonight.

    Big props to Belichick/Pioli-continues to make the right movies...especially during tough times.
  2. PATRIOT64

    PATRIOT64 Rookie

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    Dallas has an offense that will make the best secondary look average - They will be hard to stop come playoff time

    Tough times? - Last time I looked New England was 2-0 thus far - Sure Brady's loss is horrific but Tough Times? - not at this point

    You want tough times? St. Louis and Miami say hi
  3. nashvillepatsfan

    nashvillepatsfan Rookie

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    Don't miss him at all. Glad he 'got paid', just not by us :D
  4. patriotspride

    patriotspride Banned

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    how soon we forget. defense wins championships. last year pats fans were reminded of that. we should know better. 2001 the greatest show on turf also bit the dust.
  5. DisgruntledTunaFan

    DisgruntledTunaFan Rookie

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    Well-Lito/Sheldon have given TO and our WRs matchup nightmares since Owens came to Dallas, FWIW.

    I know Samuels is not a man-man shutdown corner, but when you add him into the mix with Lito/Sheldon, one would think this trio in one defensive backfield is pretty scary.

    Like I said-I was shocked to see how poorly they played(although their safeties Dawkins, Mickels, and Considine looked worse). Sure, the Eagles couldn't generate much of a pass rush, but when you have a defensive backfield with Lito, Sheldon, Asante, and Dawkins, conventional wisdom says you have the luxury to do anything.
  6. MassPats38

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    For two teams claiming to have defenses, that game was terrible. I thought team scores might hit 50 or 60 by the end of the game.

    Other than a pick I thought anyone could make given the fact no Cowboy could have caught the pass thrown by Romo, I was not overly impressed by Samuel. I would have liked to see him flop much harder, but I think his role in that suspect secondary last night was good enough for now.
  7. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    Seriously, those scores were like video game numbers!

    That makes a more exciting game, I guess, but low scores should tell you something about defensive quality.
  8. PJM

    PJM Rookie

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    Would I like them? Sure, I still think either would be an upgrade. Were the Pats right not to pay too much when their priorities were in other positions? Almost certainly - after all that has been the key to the whole BB/Piolli era.
  9. patsfaninpittsburgh

    patsfaninpittsburgh Banned

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    Where was the "vaunted" pass rush from either defense? With 93 seemingly healthy, can anyone say Dallas can compare with our front 3? I wonder if Dallas can play a game where they don't have 15 penalties.

    I would have to say NY and Green Bay are the class of the NFC.
  10. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

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    1990 says hi too.
  11. Rob0729

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    Romo completed 21 of 30 for 312 yards, 3 TDs, and 1 INT. That secondary looked less than average.

    You can't draw too many conclusions based on just one game, but I still maintain that the man centric defense that the Eagles like to run as their base is not suited for Samuel. His INT was in a zone on a poorly thrown ball.
  12. Sicilian

    Sicilian Rookie

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    It's one game, but that's a microcosm of why Samuel is overpaid (not overrated, just overpaid).

    He gets an interception on a poorly thrown ball. He gets nine more of those this year and people in Philly will say, "See? That's why we paid him!". But any CB making $9m per season better be covering TO in that game or he's not worth that much. He doesn't have to stop him every time (who could?), but the fact that he's not even playing him most of the time tells me that's not a good use of $9m worth of cap space.
  13. MoLewisrocks

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    Exactly. And in man he netted a PI in the EZ which became 7 a couple of rushes later. And that was with Philly's pass rush actually getting pretty decent pressure on Romo that led to some idiotic throws and a fumble.

    That game was little more than mildly controlled chaos. But it made ESPN and all the talking heads giddy because empty passing stats are what they salivate over. Unless of course their ours...

    Reid still inexplicably refuses to address the running game beyond Westbrook, whom they will eventually kill. His eggs remain in McNabb's basket which has never been a good place to keep something as fragile as a late lead. Jones at least grasps that while his team can regain leads lost to foolishness they need a component/capacity to facilitate safeguarding those regained leads late. That's Barber.
  14. Sicilian

    Sicilian Rookie

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    How disgusting do they get, eh?

    Though I would argue that their problem with our scoring plays is we weren't inept enough on defense to let the other team score right after. It wasn't "good" football to watch. It was a far superior team showing it had players on BOTH sides of the ball.

    What we saw last night was two teams trying to out flash each other. Innuendo somewhat intended.
  15. MoLewisrocks

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    No kidding. At one point after Romo and TO hooked up for the TD they were all peeing their pants over how Reid would now have to let sensitive Donovan get even because of the history between all these egomaniacal jerks...

    Sorry, it's no way to run a franchise/organization/team. I always gag at the comparisons between us and Philly...
  16. Deus Irae

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    It was one game between two quality teams. Had everyone criticizing here watched those same two teams last week, the commentary would be about how those two teams will be facing off in the NFCCG. Either team from last night would have destroyed the Patriots 'teams' of the past two weeks.
  17. Spiral

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    I miss him. Don't forget, the Patriots franchised him in 2007, so they thought he was worth at least the $7M+ they paid him last year. I think this offense is going to need more possessions per game than last year's, so I think a ball-hawking DB would come in quite handy right about now.
  18. dhamz

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    Whenever our guys give up a pass play - it was the scheme, lack of pressure, that is how their supposed to play. Why isn't that the same for the Eagles?

    The truth is, CB is an overrated and overpaid spot in today's NFL. The rules have made it impossible to cover anyone without a pass rush.

    The Eagles got virtually no pressure on Tony Romo. There is not a DB in football who can cover under those circumstances nevermind cover against quality guys like TO or Witten.

    It is not just Lito and Asante, when Denver couldn't get to Phillip Rivers on Sunday, Chris Chambers was torching Champ Bailey. Antonio Cromartie was nothing without Shawn Merriman. I think Brandon Marshall just caught another pass on him.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  19. MoLewisrocks

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    I've heard that before... only I'm not easily seduced. Years of Belichick have actually altered my perception of/read of what constitutes a championship caliber football team for the better...


    Bill puts this team in a posistion to capitalize on mistaked made by undisciplined teams like these. Remember the Buffalo Dallas game last year? Dallas giddily shook off that near disaster and went on ONCE AGAIN to one and done in the playoffs because they never correct the mistakes in favor of just glossing over them. Same deal in Philly.
  20. KontradictioN

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    Well, I don't know about you guys but that was a really interesting game to watch.
  21. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Entertaining might be a better word. And the talking heads love entertainment. It fuels ratings and gives them lots to babble about. Bill doesn't coach this team to entertain. He prefers they execute, which is boring to watch (and difficult to babble about) for all but hardcore football fans.
  22. Deus Irae

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    None of that matters. Right now, today, the 3 best teams of this early season are in the NFC. Green Bay, Philadelphia and Dallas are all playing much better football than the Patriots. They'd crush New England if they were playing this week. O'Neal doesn't have the defense down yet, Rodney is still struggling with the elite tight ends and Mayo is still learning the game. It's not as if the defense could have kept either Philly or Dallas to 10, or even 20, points last night. As fr the offense, we all know it's a work in progress. Let's not kid ourselves: the Patriots aren't ready to face the NFL elite right now.

    Fortunately, New England has time to get its offensive house in order before it plays the tougher games on the schedule. The Patriots should be 4-0, and have had a bye week on top of those four wins to prepare for the tougher games to follow. We know the Patriots aren't going to be bottom feeders, and we'll start to see where this New England team really fits in the NFL hierarchy starting with the Chargers game.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  23. BradyFTW!

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    More than unstoppable offenses, I saw crappy defenses last night. Who lets receivers get so open so frequently? Every other play someone was deep in the secondary with nobody within 15 feet of him.
  24. Bella*chick

    Bella*chick Addicted to the light

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    Oh, wow, Dallas looks unstoppable early in the season. Superbowl all the way! Romo sapiens abound!

    Lather. Rinse. Repeat. Yawn.


    It's astonishing how each year replays itself.
  25. MoLewisrocks

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    Would that be the 0-2 Chargers...

    Your allowing points scored to seduce you. Defense wins championships. And we don't face any of those teams until February, and the last time one of them made it that far we came away winners.

    No love for the 'gints, eh? LOL Only two of the teams you named has faced any of your so called NFL elite thus far this season, and while one of them lost it was a tossup all evening as to who deserved to more...

    We see this every year and people never learn their lesson. The sixth seed in the NFC turned out to be the best team in the NFC in week 20. With a meathead QB even his own fans boo'd for much of the season because he hamstrung his own offense. Finally when Shockey went down the entire team (including defense) rallied around him like some wounded creature, he limited his mistakes and managed games to first do no harm, and the rest as they say is (unfortunately) history. In building their blueprint they took more than one page out of Belichick's book.

    And while we're at it the greatest show on turf says hi...
  26. O.Z.O.

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    Philadelphia beat the sh*t out of a terrible Rams team at home and showed last night that they are defensively susceptible to a team with a good offense. the Cowboys beat a lousy Browns team (sorry Romeo, but you're going 4-12 this year) and showed that they are susceptible defensively to a team with a good offense. San Diego has a LOUSY defense and Captain Class' health is an issue. I don't consider them an upper echelon team at the moment (they could well be 0-3 after this week).

    With the way the defense is playing right now, I'm confident that the Pats can hold their own against anybody at this point.
  27. Deus Irae

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    Yes, that would be the 0-2 Chargers that actually won last week but got hosed on a call.

    No, I'm not allowing points scored to seduce me. I'm using logic and common sense. New England's offense is not good enough to go score for score with the elite teams right now.

    And here you make my point about evaluating based upon only the one game.

    Given that this has absolutely nothing to do with the criticism of the Eagles and Cowboys after last night's game, I'll just point out that I noted the part about there being time for the Patriots offense to improve and leave it at that.

    Well, tell it that I said "hello" and that it has nothing to do with this conversation either.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  28. Deus Irae

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    New England is not a team with a good offense right now. That's pretty much the point, actually. All (well, most) teams in the NFL will improve over the course of the season. Hopefully, the Patriots will improve more than other teams.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  29. Lampshade

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    Wow. I have no idea what game you guys were watching last night. They threw at Samuel twice all night. One was for the PI in the endzone, and the other was a 7 yard completion in the 4th quarter. Samuel lined up across from Owens a number of times, and the PI play was the only time Romo went his way.

    This is a case of reaching a conclusion before the game was played IMO.
  30. spacecrime

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    You mean when Asante let the game-clinching INT go through his fingers? Last year our defense was subpar. THis year it is much better. IMO, BB/Sp made all the right moves on defense.

    No one is disputing that defense wins championships. What the OP was saying (I think?) is that we are just fine without Asante and Lito.

    We played better defense these two games this year that we did in any two games last year. Why the heck would we want to have different personnel? I like our defense just the way it is!
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