Anyone else worried about the running game?

[woolster22]

I'm not too worried about the running game if I'm honest, dependant on a couple of things though. We know we have the talent at Running Back so that's no concern at all. I though Vereen, despite very poor blocking, showed off some nice skills in avoiding would-be tacklers and gaining extra yardage he shouldn't have really been gaining given the penetration.

The key will be Mankins returning and then, hopefully, Waters. If those two are back in and starting at Guard then I honestly can't see an issue. With Wendell at Center and Connolly and Thomas backing up the guard positions, I would be more than happy. Cannon for now is taking a back seat with his performances at tackle and I would sooner see McDonald back up the right side.

If, and that's a big if, Vollmer can stay healthy I would like to see him and Solder switch sides. Solder flashed great potential on the right side and his strength seems to be blocking for the run which is what you look for in your Right Tackle. Vollmer doesn't have much issue with either when he is consistent.

I don't think a line of (from left to right) Vollmer, Mankins, Wendell, Waters/Connolly and Solder is a terrible line or anything to worry about. We have seen what Vollmer is capable of on the left and it has been talked up before...so let's see it.

Vollmer isn't the answer at lt. Too oft injured. If anything (as far as surprises go...) Mankins will be back in at the position that got him hurt (lt), solder at right, with any guess to the mix of the talented interior lineman.

I predict that solder stays at lt, he has caught a bad rap (i too am guilty, pointing at his sb performance and jumping on the bandwagon before seeing the 1st preseason game, lol), but he will be fine. Ma is driven by sensationalistic media, why else would the sox be so talked about? I knew they were done when Mr "imploded the Mets and have been announcing for a few seasons," was named as manager. Seriously, that would be like the pats naming herm Edwards their hc next year...case in point, our perennial probowl lt just retired, of course there will be panic (even though I was never a big fan of matt offside light, you don't know what you have til its gone).

The true story of the ol this year should be how incredibly deep the interior is. While this is nice and all, ot is solder, cannon and the oft injured Vollmer. Color me skeptical...

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[supafly]

The true story of the ol this year should be how incredibly deep the interior is. While this is nice and all, ot is solder, cannon and the oft injured Vollmer. Color me skeptical...

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I wouldn't be surprised to see an OT snagged from another team's roster cuts. Although most will say that we won't be able to get anyone worth anything, they could prove to be a sufficient enough backup candidate after a few/several weeks of practices and system knowledge.

Like I said, I'm not expecting another Brian Waters in a tackle version at the end of camp, but there may be someone who can be a potential upgrade over Cannon at this point. We all know that Belichick is a stickler for keeping up on other teams' players and potential rolodex candidates, so I am actually expecting a try or two at the offensive tackle position here in the next few weeks (throughout the post week one roster).

Cannon to me is still a developmental project, although I am certainly not claiming to be anything close to an expert on offensive linemen or their techniques. I think he probably has some potential there, but it's not entirely surprising to see that he doesn't have it down pat just yet.

 

[woolster22]

I wouldn't be surprised to see an OT snagged from another team's roster cuts. Although most will say that we won't be able to get anyone worth anything, they could prove to be a sufficient enough backup candidate after a few/several weeks of practices and system knowledge.

Like I said, I'm not expecting another Brian Waters in a tackle version at the end of camp, but there may be someone who can be a potential upgrade over Cannon at this point. We all know that Belichick is a stickler for keeping up on other teams' players and potential rolodex candidates, so I am actually expecting a try or two at the offensive tackle position here in the next few weeks (throughout the post week one roster).

Cannon to me is still a developmental project, although I am certainly not claiming to be anything close to an expert on offensive linemen or their techniques. I think he probably has some potential there, but it's not entirely surprising to see that he doesn't have it down pat just yet.

With you one hundred percent. I am no technique expert, but can tell when someone is being overwhelmed.

Cannon has been overwhelmed. You could see it on his face on the sidelines against Philly. What this kid needs is Vollmer to come in, get kicked to guard, and be let loose. He simply doesn't seem to have the quickness. He does have the strength, but the lack of quickness and being able to read his rusher get him out of position in a hurry.

How you can move for an outside shoulder/center bull rush when the first step and shoulders are selling inside dip all the way are beyond me. Its almost like the kid is thinking too hard. Too much reacting, not enough enforcing. Then again, what do I know.

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[JMarr]

Offensive linemen aside, I'm not seeing much from the running backs on the roster - and if it needs to be said, I'm no scout. The knock on Ridley is his ball security.. with Vereen, I think he dances around a bit too much rather than hit the hole with his speed... and Bolden just doesn't have the experience.

That said, I'd like to see Bolden make the roster and make a statement. The team is really going to have to utilize the screen to get these running backs the ball, as well as take pressure off Brady.

At the end of the day, the Pats will be passing a lot.

I agree with this. As much as we would like to think it's a given that Ridley and Vareen (and hopefully Bolden) will become viable RB's, they are all still unknown quantities. And I do worry that we might not have a reliable enough short yardage back on the roster.

I don't see BB trusting Demps to return kicks anytime soon, so it's possible that he was brought in to compete for some touches at RB right off the bat as much as anything else. In terms of keeping relentless heat off of Brady, a true home run threat in the backfield could be as effective as anything Ridley or Vareen have to offer.

 

[JJDChE]

Offensive linemen aside, I'm not seeing much from the running backs on the roster - and if it needs to be said, I'm no scout. The knock on Ridley is his ball security.. with Vereen, I think he dances around a bit too much rather than hit the hole with his speed... and Bolden just doesn't have the experience.

I agree with this. As much as we would like to think it's a given that Ridley and Vareen (and hopefully Bolden) will become viable RB's, they are all still unknown quantities. And I do worry that we might not have a reliable enough short yardage back on the roster.

Geez guys, a bit pessimistic? Between preseason and regular season Ridley has 139 carries and is averaging nearly 5 yards a carry and he has 3 fumbles in 156 total touches, it's a far cry from ball security 'issues'. Vereen and Bolden are a bit more unknown, but they've looked better than what we've had for the last few years. I don't see Vereen 'dancing' at all. Except for the Philly game when the DLine was nearly beating him to the handoff he's been hitting the hole fast and hard.

 

[JMarr]

Geez guys, a bit pessimistic? Between preseason and regular season Ridley has 139 carries and is averaging nearly 5 yards a carry and he has 3 fumbles in 156 total touches, it's a far cry from ball security 'issues'. Vereen and Bolden are a bit more unknown, but they've looked better than what we've had for the last few years. I don't see Vereen 'dancing' at all. Except for the Philly game when the DLine was nearly beating him to the handoff he's been hitting the hole fast and hard.

I agree that there's no reason to believe that either Ridley or Vareen can't cut it at this level. But we also haven't seen enough of them to say that along with Woodhead etc. it's a lock that they will provide an adequate ground threat, not to mention to stay healthy. But on Ridley, we're really just arguing semantics--in spite of his almost 5 YPC last year, I classify a second year guy who was benched by BB in the middle of his rookie season as still being somewhat of an unknown quantity (despite the fact that I personally think he's going to be very good).

 

[JJDChE]

OK, can we end this now? Ridley looks better than any runner we've had since Dillon came on in '04. For young runners, how far back do we need to go? Robert Edwards? Curtis Martin?

Somewhat ironically, Edwards and Martin, as rookies, and Dillon in '04, each fumbled the ball 5 times. Here we are crapping on Ridley for ball security because he has 3 fumbles in what is approaching 200 touches in his career.

...and pass protection (another knock we've heard)? He made some pretty impressive blitz pickups last night. He's actually starting to look like a 3 down back.

I don't see any reason whatsoever to be worried about the run game at this point. It just looks better and better as Ridley gets more comfortable back there.

 

[Reckedtrek]

OK, can we end this now? Ridley looks better than any runner we've had since Dillon came on in '04. For young runners, how far back do we need to go? Robert Edwards? Curtis Martin?

Somewhat ironically, Edwards and Martin, as rookies, and Dillon in '04, each fumbled the ball 5 times. Here we are crapping on Ridley for ball security because he has 3 fumbles in what is approaching 200 touches in his career.

...and pass protection (another knock we've heard)? He made some pretty impressive blitz pickups last night. He's actually starting to look like a 3 down back.

I don't see any reason whatsoever to be worried about the run game at this point. It just looks better and better as Ridley gets more comfortable back there.

I agree 100%. It's still only preseason, but the running game is one area that I am not remotely concerned about whatsoever.

 

[captain stone]

I watched some of the re-broadcast today on the NFLN; I also DVRed it so I can watch it
in better detail after the kids start school tomorrow.
The short-yardage run-blocking sucked, esp in the 1st half. Little cohesion, even less push.
If the OL doesn't soon (as in: Week #1) start converting 3rd/3 or less run plays, then Bill,
McD & Brady will collectively say Screw It and chuck the ball on every down & every distance.

 

[patfanken]

Jeus. What a bunch of worry warts. I admit to not having read most of this tread. Why should I, I assumed that the answer was an resounding NO after the TB game.

If you are still worried, let me help you out.

1.With an offensive line missing 3 of its 5 starters

2. With different people shuffling in and out of the OL group making cohesiveness difficult

3. With all kinds of different skill set people being shuffled in.and out

4. Using game plans that had no rhyme or reason (outside of teaching), and against 3 aggressive defenses that you didn't plan for.

5. And then add the inherent problems of starting two 2nd year OTs minus 40% of your practices (And did I mention a new OC . No Martha, this is NOT going to be te same as BOB's offense)

All that crap and The Running game in 2 of those game managed to average well over FIVE ypc

My question would rather be, how many more ypc would the RB's have to carry the ball before you WOULD be satisfied.??????

Its not perfect....but worried?????? HelllNo. I have a lot more pressing things than the running game to worry about.,

 

[UK_Pat37]

Offensive linemen aside, I'm not seeing much from the running backs on the roster - and if it needs to be said, I'm no scout. The knock on Ridley is his ball security.. with Vereen, I think he dances around a bit too much rather than hit the hole with his speed... and Bolden just doesn't have the experience.

That said, I'd like to see Bolden make the roster and make a statement. The team is really going to have to utilize the screen to get these running backs the ball, as well as take pressure off Brady.

At the end of the day, the Pats will be passing a lot.

What games have you been watching?

Granted its preseason, but 'not seeing much'? Ridley's ball security concerns are non existent. He fumbled twice all season...he just made those fumbles at the worst possible time for himself; right at the end of the regular season going into the playoffs.

The knock on Ridley was some key fundamentals; running upright, holding the ball in the wrong arm, occasionally spinning into hits....things he has clearly worked on this offseason.

Disagree on Verren. He's often been playing with a shoddy O Line and on more than one occasion he has turned what should have been no gains or losses into positive yardage with his ability to break and avoid tackles. If there's no hole to hit what can you do???

Bolden hasn't flashed anything in games considering his gleaming camp reports. He's really nothing special.

As for passin a lot and utilising screens...we have Tom Brady and Josh McDaniels... biggest understatement of the century! I don't think being pass heavy will have anything to do with a poor run game. Mankins and Waters (if he doesn't retire) will boost the run game immensely should they both play.

 

[italia44]

What games have you been watching?

Granted its preseason, but 'not seeing much'? Ridley's ball security concerns are non existent. He fumbled twice all season...he just made those fumbles at the worst possible time for himself; right at the end of the regular season going into the playoffs.

The knock on Ridley was some key fundamentals; running upright, holding the ball in the wrong arm, occasionally spinning into hits....things he has clearly worked on this offseason.

Disagree on Verren. He's often been playing with a shoddy O Line and on more than one occasion he has turned what should have been no gains or losses into positive yardage with his ability to break and avoid tackles. If there's no hole to hit what can you do???

Bolden hasn't flashed anything in games considering his gleaming camp reports. He's really nothing special.

As for passin a lot and utilising screens...we have Tom Brady and Josh McDaniels... biggest understatement of the century! I don't think being pass heavy will have anything to do with a poor run game. Mankins and Waters (if he doesn't retire) will boost the run game immensely should they both play.

......and with Ridley,the Pats are finally running that stretch play to the RIGHT,instead of always going left and looking for a cut-back,that takes too long.:rocker: