Anyone else thinkshe Rob Ryan factor is overplayed?

[Guts]

Ha all good man, I seriously believed we would put 30 but by the looks of it the Fat Ryans know how to make the Pats offense work for it

 

[Joker]

sorta off topic...BUT...when was the last time anybody held a Ryan under 300 pounds???

1980? 82??

 

[VJCPatriot]

Well this Ryan kept the Pats potent offense to only 20 points. You're not going to see that happen a whole lot this season. So I'll give him credit. Of course having Demarcus Ware really helps too. But let's give props to our own defense as well. Carter was an impact player. So was Haynesworth even if he wasn't credited on the stat sheet. And Wilfork forced a huge fumble, he's our rock. Great defensive football game. I was really expecting a shootout. This is totally gonna kill me in the 'guess the score' game. LOL.

 

[PatsDeb]

I don't think it was overplayed. He held us to 11 points less than average. Luckily Tom & co. were able to overcome it in the 4th.

 

[LetsGoPats36]

It may have been overplayed, that's what the media does, but the truth is that Rob's D played us tougher than any other opponent has this year and we were home. Scraping by with 20 points certainly isn't what I imagined going in to this game.

 

[Joker]

Will somebody else in the league PLEASE beat the Patriots?????? Pretty please with hot fudge, butterscotch, sprinkles, whipped cream and ten cherries on top????

I HEAR ya, brother...I hear ya...and dyam!!! am I hungry...you throw in five apple pies and a Yoo Hoo and I'll take them out!!!!.........

awwww...back to back...ain't it a Cryan shame????

 

[JJDChE]

23 games since the beginning of last season. 6 against Ryan led defenses (4 Jets, 1 Browns, 1 Dallas).

In 17 games against non-Ryan defenses:
Average PPG: 34.1
Games scoring less than 23 points: 0 of 17

In 6 games against Ryan defenses:
Average PPG: 24.0 (it's under 20 ppg if you take out the 45 pt Jets drubbing)
Games scoring less than 23 points: 4 of 6


It's really tough to say it's not a factor considering the recent history.

 

[reflexblue]

Not to get technical here, but he doesn't have a mullet. A mullet is short on the sides and long in the back. He just has all around long, flowing locks.

Apparently, he grows it out and then cuts it off for Locks of Love, which is tough to hate on him for.

Ugh, I've just defended a Ryan. I'll kick my own ass out the door, thanks.

Thank you for the explanation (and i'm not being a wise ass) I know what a mullet is, i thought during one of the close up of the Head coach thats what i thought i saw, my mistake

 

[Dessalines]

The whole Ryan business, Rex, Rob, and daddy Buddy is way overplayed but that's another side of the NFL, the soap opera. Stories within stories, which helps to keep things interesting.


Does anybody here think that the Ryan's are better defensive coaches than Bill Belichick? I'm not saying that Bill is better than they are but frankly they all understand what each other are doing. Its not like Bill is a defensive neophyte and I doubt he or Brady were surprised by what came their way yesterday or last week.

Lastly coaches can draw up all the game plans and plays they want but if players can't execute them, those plans and plays are useless and meaningless.

 

[Rob0729]

I admit that I underestimated the Ryan factor a bit, but he is now 1-3 against the Pats as a defensive coordinator.

 

[Metaphors]

Sometimes I really believe that people don't watch games but just look at the stats and draw conclusions. While the Cowboys defense certainly played well and limited the Pats to 13 points with 4 minutes to go, a look at the drives doesn't paint a defensive masterpiece story:

1) 31 yd FG
2) Pick on deflected ball

Quick aside...have you ever seen so many deflected passes find their way directly to defenders? 4 in just 6 games is insane.

3) 26 yd FG
4) TD
5) Punt after 6 plays (nice sack to kill drive)
6) Fumble after 66 yard drive ends in red zone
7) Pick after 42 yard drive
8) 3-and-out (after a terrible play call on 2nd and 1)
9) TD

9 drives. 2 TDs. 2 FGs that needed red zone stops. 2 turnovers after Pats got in FG range. 1 turnover on a deflected ball. 2 punts.

If the Pats didn't play uncharacteristically sloppy, the Pats could have (and likely should have) been into the 30's once again. Good for the Cowboys for being opportunistic, particularly in the red zone. Solid team. Good plan. Great effort. Add in an off day for the Pats offense and the result is a game the Cowboys should have won. That is impressive enough. No need to turn it into a "blueprint" game.

 

[goheels22002]

Sometimes I really believe that people don't watch games but just look at the stats and draw conclusions. While the Cowboys defense certainly played well and limited the Pats to 13 points with 4 minutes to go, a look at the drives doesn't paint a defensive masterpiece story:

1) 31 yd FG
2) Pick on deflected ball

Quick aside...have you ever seen so many deflected passes find their way directly to defenders? 4 in just 6 games is insane.

3) 26 yd FG
4) TD
5) Punt after 6 plays (nice sack to kill drive)
6) Fumble after 66 yard drive ends in red zone
7) Pick after 42 yard drive
8) 3-and-out (after a terrible play call on 2nd and 1)
9) TD

9 drives. 2 TDs. 2 FGs that needed red zone stops. 2 turnovers after Pats got in FG range. 1 turnover on a deflected ball. 2 punts.

If the Pats didn't play uncharacteristically sloppy, the Pats could have (and likely should have) been into the 30's once again. Good for the Cowboys for being opportunistic, particularly in the red zone. Solid team. Good plan. Great effort. Add in an off day for the Pats offense and the result is a game the Cowboys should have won. That is impressive enough. No need to turn it into a "blueprint" game.

The defense for the Cowboys is excellent. Their alignments varied a lot and they tackle very well. Look at your summary. It's not that the Patriots were sloppy so much as they ran into a very tough defense that stoned them until they were totally gassed at the end on the road.

The turnovers were caused by a tipped ball (good defense), Brady getting hammered as he threw (good defense), and a tremendous strip on Hernandez (good defense). If Dallas had a quarterback they could trust, they'd be lethal.

Coverage was good all night until the final drive and the sacks were good players beating other good players. There were no dumb mistakes up front, just really tough matchups. It was impressive seeing Mankins get beat in the first half on an overload scheme that got him turned sideways as the rush came. Good coaching and great execution.

 

[LivinLovin&Breathin_Brady]

The Ryan thing is waaaay overplayed, in fact I think NE would've scored about 30 points had they ran the ball more.

The Patriots offense did play stupidly and sloppish through the whole game except the last drive.

* I wasn't keeping track of the amount of penalties the offense had called on them, but it seemed like they were penalized for false starts on nearly every drive.
* Hernandez drops a TD pass into the hands of a cowboy.
* Hernandez fumbles a ball
* Special Teams fumbles a ball
* Branch drops what should've been a TD pass instead of a FG
* Brady throws a very stupid INT instead of just taking the sack
* Dallas' reciever I thought fumbled the ball and I was shocked Belichick didn't challenge that one.

Dallas D played very well and I give them some credit. But the reason for the little amount of points and the near lost is all on the Pats offense. They were playing terrible.

 

[reflexblue]

The Ryan thing is waaaay overplayed, in fact I think NE would've scored about 30 points had they ran the ball more.

The Patriots offense did play stupidly and sloppish through the whole game except the last drive.

* I wasn't keeping track of the amount of penalties the offense had called on them, but it seemed like they were penalized for false starts on nearly every drive.
* Hernandez drops a TD pass into the hands of a cowboy.
* Hernandez fumbles a ball
* Special Teams fumbles a ball
* Branch drops what should've been a TD pass instead of a FG
* Brady throws a very stupid INT instead of just taking the sack
* Dallas' reciever I thought fumbled the ball and I was shocked Belichick didn't challenge that one.

Dallas D played very well and I give them some credit. But the reason for the little amount of points and the near lost is all on the Pats offense. They were playing terrible.

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we’d all have a merry Christmas”.....Don Meredeth

 

[Metaphors]

The defense for the Cowboys is excellent. Their alignments varied a lot and they tackle very well.

I think excellent is a bit much as their DBs are questionable. I agree they have the talent to play excellent when everything falls together. Seems like you could say that about most teams so I would include them with the top defensive teams.

Look at your summary. It's not that the Patriots were sloppy so much as they ran into a very tough defense that stoned them until they were totally gassed at the end on the road.

The Jets offense was stoned in the first quarter last night. The Pats made it into scoring range 5 of 8 drives before the final one. Only one of those drives was influenced by field position and only one took more than 4 minutes. The Pats were 7-12 on 3rd downs on those drives. Brady has a 97 QB rating in the first half and the RBs averaged 4 ypc.

If I told you the above situations would happen against Dallas in the first 8 drives, you would have taken it in a heartbeat. If I told you the above situation happened to the Pats defense, you would have said they were getting abused. You may have been stoned when you made your evaluation, but I'm not sure I would used "stoned" in my assessment of the Dallas defense.

The turnovers were caused by a tipped ball (good defense), Brady getting hammered as he threw (good defense), and a tremendous strip on Hernandez (good defense).

Here is how I would assess those plays:

- Tipped pick: Good play by Coleman to get his hand up. Poor coverage as Branch was wide open. Tremendous luck as ball flew like a heat-seeking missile directly to Newman.

- Lee pick: Great pressure by Spears (I think). Poor decision by Brady, though Branch (I think) was wide open deep behind the coverage. Again amazing luck that the ball went right to Lee.

- Hernandez fumble: James was lost on the play and Hernandez was lonely for a couple of seconds but Brady didn't see him. The strip by James was a good play as he got a hand on the ball but Hernandez lost ball focus (as he seems to do) just before he hit the ground.

So good defense on all the plays but nothing exceptional. Bad luck and/or bad play caused the situations to become turnovers. Again, not an indictment of the Cowboys but no reason to overplay what actually happened.

Coverage was good all night until the final drive and the sacks were good players beating other good players. There were no dumb mistakes up front, just really tough matchups. It was impressive seeing Mankins get beat in the first half on an overload scheme that got him turned sideways as the rush came. Good coaching and great execution.

Except for the "coverage was good all night until the final drive" statement, I would agree with everything you said. The first sack was understandable as the routes took too long to uncover. The second sack was Ware being the top hombre on the field. Just sick.

The Cowboys are a tough defense and they played well Sunday. The point of the thread is whether or not Ryan has a scheme/plan that is kryptonite against Brady. I saw nothing in what the Cowboys threw at the Pats that they couldn't handle if they didn't make uncharacteristic mistakes.

 

[goheels22002]

Re: Anyone else thinks the Rob Ryan factor is overplayed?

Here is how I would assess those plays:

- Tipped pick: Good play by Coleman to get his hand up. Poor coverage as Branch was wide open. Tremendous luck as ball flew like a heat-seeking missile directly to Newman.

- Lee pick: Great pressure by Spears (I think). Poor decision by Brady, though Branch (I think) was wide open deep behind the coverage. Again amazing luck that the ball went right to Lee.

- Hernandez fumble: James was lost on the play and Hernandez was lonely for a couple of seconds but Brady didn't see him. The strip by James was a good play as he got a hand on the ball but Hernandez lost ball focus (as he seems to do) just before he hit the ground.

So good defense on all the plays but nothing exceptional. Bad luck and/or bad play caused the situations to become turnovers. Again, not an indictment of the Cowboys but no reason to overplay what actually happened.

We mostly agree, except I give credit to the Dallas defense for all of those turnovers and remove "luck" from the equation. The tipped ball, the strip by James and the hit on Brady by Victor Butler (see photo) were just good plays by defenders. All three were Dallas takeaways, not unforced errors.

Were the key plays a result of Rob Ryan's scheming? My feeling is that coaches put players in a position to be successful at what they do best. So, yeah, as DC, Rob Ryan had a good night keeping the Patriots under control. Holding the Patriots to 20 points is all you can ask of your defense at Gillette, I think. Could the Patriots handle what he threw at them? They could and they did.

The key to this loss for the Cowboys rests with the their lack of confidence in their QB and their failure to get a first down or two on their second to last possession. It was almost as dramatic as the Kevin Faulk 4th and 2 in Indianapolis, and could very well be the drive or lack thereof that determines the Cowboys' season.

 

[Metaphors]

Re: Anyone else thinks the Rob Ryan factor is overplayed?

We mostly agree, except I give credit to the Dallas defense for all of those turnovers and remove "luck" from the equation. The tipped ball, the strip by James and the hit on Brady by Victor Butler (see photo) were just good plays by defenders. All three were Dallas takeaways, not unforced errors.

I guess you just don't believe in luck/fate/whatever because that first pick is an incomplete pass 99% of the time. The other 2 plays were a combination of good defense with poor ball security by the Pats...particularly since they were in FG range already in a tied game.

Were the key plays a result of Rob Ryan's scheming? My feeling is that coaches put players in a position to be successful at what they do best. So, yeah, as DC, Rob Ryan had a good night keeping the Patriots under control. Holding the Patriots to 20 points is all you can ask of your defense at Gillette, I think.

No doubt. A good learning experience for the Pats offense and always a bonus when you can win.

The key to this loss for the Cowboys rests with the their lack of confidence in their QB and their failure to get a first down or two on their second to last possession. It was almost as dramatic as the Kevin Faulk 4th and 2 in Indianapolis, and could very well be the drive or lack thereof that determines the Cowboys' season.

That is the baffling part. If they didn't trust Romo, there is no way he would be able to scramble for a 1st down on 2nd-n-13 and throw an out pass on 2nd-n-10 against McCourty. But once the field compressed near the goal line, they wouldn't let him play naturally. Same on the final drive. It is like they don't know how to match play calling with the abilities of their players. Shame because they have the talent to succeed but intangibles are holding them back.