Anyone Else Think Connor Barwin Is Overrated?

[Box_O_Rocks]

Sorry but I'm not the one going around trying to paint himself here as a draft guru, claiming he knows way more from watching a few games on a couch, and berating others for disagreeing. The fact you reacted so strongly throughout this thread shows just how personally and emotionally attached you are over thinking you're some sort of expert, and how you can't handle it if people don't agree.

Well so far you've allowed as how I'm insane and illogical. Now I'm emotional and a self professed draft guru.

Congratulations mav, it's clear you've won the argument with your sane, logical, objective, and inexaustable supply of rectitude and fact. Your use of youtube clips to refute my recorded television broadcasts was brilliant, and trumping my veteran sports reporter with "Anthony" the blogger bordered on a genius for gamesmanship worthy of Napoleon himself. Gadzooks sir, but outing me as a faceless messageboard participant was a master stroke! I yield sir, have mercy. :youtheman:

By the way, nice paraphrase of Jack Nicholson's character from A Few Good Men, a very clever coup de grace!

 

[tanked_as_usual]

regarding the USC LB's.......I think it is much more likely that one of those 3 will be a bust than barwin........

 

[TriplecHamp]

Three years from now we will look back on this with a better perspective. Barwin could be among the leauge leaders in sacks or he could be burried under the depth chart being regarded as a bust. This thread has almost 250 post of Patriots fans throwing insults at eachother :disagreement: over a guy we might not even draft. The Draft is 24 days away everybody needs to relax. None of us are making any decisons for this team so we should sit back and relax none of us are experts and I hear about people watching tape and such come on get a life some of us sound like dillusional armchair GM's. Lighten Up and let the draft unfold when its time.

 

[mayoclinic]

Three years from now we will look back on this with a better perspective. Barwin could be among the leauge leaders in sacks or he could be burried under the depth chart being regarded as a bust. This thread has almost 250 post of Patriots fans throwing insults at eachother :disagreement: over a guy we might not even draft. The Draft is 24 days away everybody needs to relax. None of us are making any decisons for this team so we should sit back and relax none of us are experts and I hear about people watching tape and such come on get a life some of us sound like dillusional armchair GM's. Lighten Up and let the draft unfold when its time.

With a few exceptions, most of this friend has been reasonably civil and has attempted to trade views and information rather than insults. I've tried to take that position myself, and hope I haven't fallen short. I think you are right that anything that needs to be said has already been said on the subject, and we're probably not going to add any more (and certainly not make a difference to the actual draft outcome) between now and the draft.

 

[TriplecHamp]

With a few exceptions, most of this friend has been reasonably civil and has attempted to trade views and information rather than insults. I've tried to take that position myself, and hope I haven't fallen short. I think you are right that anything that needs to be said has already been said on the subject, and we're probably not going to add any more (and certainly not make a difference to the actual draft outcome) between now and the draft.

Yeah I mean we are all Pats fans with different opinions state your case and move on, don't go calling people Illiterate and such it just doesn't make us as fans look good.

 

[maverick4]

This thread has almost 250 post of Patriots fans throwing insults at eachother :disagreement: over a guy we might not even draft. The Draft is 24 days away everybody needs to relax. None of us are making any decisons for this team so we should sit back and relax none of us are experts and I hear about people watching tape and such come on get a life some of us sound like dillusional armchair GM's. Lighten Up and let the draft unfold when its time.

Come on now, you're going to hurt Box's feelings with your dismissal of the armchair GM's and experts. I too agree it's getting lame with the personal insults. Look at this thread, I only respond in kind to resident hotheads here who take things way too personally (Box, Dabruinz). They sound personally insulted that I and others think Barwin is over-rated, it's almost like I'm deflating their balloon and they can't take it.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Come on now, you're going to hurt Box's feelings with your dismissal of the armchair GM's and experts. I too agree it's getting lame with the personal insults. Look at this thread, I only respond in kind to resident hotheads here who take things way too personally (Box, Dabruinz). They sound personally insulted that I and others think Barwin is over-rated, it's almost like I'm deflating their balloon and they can't take it.

Too funny.

 

[Patriot Missile]

This has become quite the North Vs the South, Hatfields vs McCoys debate. Funny stuff though.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

This has become quite the North Vs the South, Hatfields vs McCoys debate. Funny stuff though.

Y'all git yor Yankee funnin' out'n mah hills flatlander.

 

[BadMoFo]

The good thing about the draft is that no one here is making the picks and in the end we're going to treat whoever we pick like he's a future HOFer regardless of what was said in the past. And then if someone in the media criticizes our draft we'll come back at them by saying they just hate the Patriots like everyone in the media except Mike Reiss. And all will be the same.

 

[patchick]

The good thing about the draft is that no one here is making the picks and in the end we're going to treat whoever we pick like he's a future HOFer regardless of what was said in the past. And then if someone in the media criticizes our draft we'll come back at them by saying they just hate the Patriots like everyone in the media except Mike Reiss. And all will be the same.

In fact, let me be the first to say that I love what BB & co. did with this draft. It certainly wasn't what I was expecting, and it's always hard to watch the team pass on every one of my favorite prospects. But the more I think about it, the more I appreciate their strategic approach to value -- and it's not hard to get excited about these picks! I think this draft class lays a tremendous foundation for long-term dominance.

 

[mayoclinic]

In fact, let me be the first to say that I love what BB & co. did with this draft. It certainly wasn't what I was expecting, and it's always hard to watch the team pass on every one of my favorite prospects. But the more I think about it, the more I appreciate their strategic approach to value -- and it's not hard to get excited about these picks! I think this draft class lays a tremendous foundation for long-term dominance.

I'll be the 2nd one to say it. Even though BB took every player whom I openly despised for the past 4 months and made a fool of me by taking all of the positions that I said he wouldn't, now that they are Patriots I will defend them against all comers. :singing:

 

[BadMoFo]

In fact, let me be the first to say that I love what BB & co. did with this draft. It certainly wasn't what I was expecting, and it's always hard to watch the team pass on every one of my favorite prospects. But the more I think about it, the more I appreciate their strategic approach to value -- and it's not hard to get excited about these picks! I think this draft class lays a tremendous foundation for long-term dominance.

I know, I can't wait for rookie mini-camp to start. The Pats' Class of 2010 is the best group of rookies ever assembled even though I called every guy we drafted overrated on at least one occasion before we drafted them. I wonder what number the rookies will wear? Better yet, I wonder what numbers we'll be retiring in 15 years?

 

[AzPatsFan]

Barwin is way way more physically talented than Bruschi, also with so many teams switching to a 3-4, Barwin has the size and speed ratio that 3-4 teams look for in their OLB. Another thing is Bruschi coming out of college was a DT(a severely undersized one at that) if im not mistaking so ppl couldnt gauge what position he would playing at that time. Who would of thought all these years later Bruschi's natural fit was at Middle Linebacker as oppose to OLB or DE.

BB did. 'Nuff said.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

at least he ain't on the juice

 

[maverick4]

Ricey, good points, but correction Bruschi was a defensive end (led the NCAA in sacks I believe) who took 4 years to convert to being a savvy ILB.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Ricey, good points, but correction Bruschi was a defensive end (led the NCAA in sacks I believe) who took 4 years to convert to being a savvy ILB.

No, he was a DT here at Arizona, occasionally they would line him up everywhere. But he was a penetrating Defesnive Tackle like John Randle of the Vikes, and very undersized for the NFL, as such.

That was why he excelled at the IiLB blitz. The pass rush techniques are very similar. And it did take at least three seasons for him to make the transition.

He was also a natural fiery leader and smart enough to be a Team captain and to be able to call plays and pre-snap adjustments. All the more reason we should take one of the big ILBs at 23 or 34. Every year there are 220-230 # guys like that but seldom guys at 240# plus. Look at Posluzny and Connor, both are rising stars but just too small for the Belichick 3-4 ILB position. So he passed on them.

 

[maverick4]

Bruschi played defense for the Arizona Wildcats as a defensive end where he tied the NCAA Division I-A career sack record with 52 QB sacks.
Scout.com: Tedy Bruschi Profile

He played college football at the University of Arizona as a defensive end, where he tied the NCAA Division I-A sack record with 52 quarterback sacks. He was taken by the Patriots in the 3rd round (25th pick) of the 1996 NFL draft.
Tedy Bruschi - Biography of Tedy Bruschi

He played college football at the University of Arizona as a defensive end, where he tied the NCAA Division I-A sack record with 52 quarterback sacks
Tedy Bruschi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[DaBruinz]

The thing is, while that list may be short, there is a long list of complete busts or overrated picks who had 1 amazing year of production in college, great athletic measurables, were smart/intelligent/coachable, and said all the right things before the draft.

I think the Barwin lovers are underrating actual football experience. You can't become an elite or even starter level player without tons and tons of reps, coaching, and time, no matter how willing or eager you are to learn.

Again, people have pointed out players who HAVE been ELITE in the NFL who didn't meat that criteria. What you also fail to acknowledge is that Barwin has 4 years of playing at a D1 school. And NO ONE but yourself has claimed that Barwin will be an immediate starter for the Pats, regardless of where he's drafted. But you'd rather throw out BS and put your fingers in your ears and stomp around like a 2 year old saying "NYAH NYAH, I'm right and you're wrong." There have been plenty of LOGICAL rebuttals to you. Rebuttals that are much more logical than most of your own posts.

 

[DaBruinz]

I never said he'd be a "bust", I have acknowledged Barwin's talent and potential. I said he's over-rated based on people here thinking we'd be lucky to have him fall to us at #23. His production next year and probably for the next 3 years is going to be around 20 tackles, 3-4 sacks a year. I don't see Barwin producing significantly more than his draft clone Trevor Scott did. Scott played TE two years and DE two years (19 sacks in college), had crazy good athletic measurables and upside, and was a situational pass rusher in the NFL.

I asked several days ago if anyone could list any other defensive prospect who became good in the NFL based on 1 good year in college besides John Lynch in the past 20 years. The odds are not very good. Even Lynch, an amazing athlete with great potential despite playing D only 1 year, was a 3rd round pick.

Trevor Scott and Barwin are not clones. That is your illogical thinking. Not to mention that Scott is playin DE in the 4-3 and people are projecting Barwin as a 3-4 OLB. Also, it took players like Vrabel, Adalius Thomas, and Bruschi 2-3 years to be effective. Why would it be bad for Barwin? OH.. that's right. You think it would be bad because he'd have been a 1st rounder. Of course, you forget to take into consideration the level of talent in each of the drafts that those players were in.