Anyone else curious why Connolly is exclusive at Guard

[patfanken]

He didn't get beat out for the job.

Koppen was better than Connolly last season. Connolly wasn't winning the center job. If he had been going to win that job, Koppen would not have been brought back this year.

Once again DI, you're leading the league in "absolutes" You are right, Connolly didn't "win" the Center job, because he had won the OG job. THEN he replaced Koppen and Waters replaced him.

And Koppen wasn't better than Connolly at C, just better at some aspects of the position. Connolly was much better at holding his own against big powerful pocket pushers at the N position. Koppen was better at getting to the 2nd level in the run game.

You have to stop seeing things in just black and white. It doesn't work that way.

BTW- not of nothing, but I thought that McDonald was the best C out there on Monday

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

No, you claimed that BB was working the lineup all the time. I showed that, in fact, he had 3 of the 5 players entrenched in positions, and noted the 4th as the clear starter when he was healthy. Now you're trying to hedge your initial claim.



Nothing more? You tried equating a player lost to injury, which is completely different. Furthermore, I noted the $100 million incentive to keep Bledsoe in the lineup. My post wasn't hyperbole. Your argument is just a poor one.




Actually, it wasn't just my opinion. But at least you're now at the point where you go beyond the "starter" argument (a really lousy argument, given who the starting QB was).

Well you don't need me to have an argument because you're just writing fiction at this point. I'm sure there are another 100 or so posters you can have a twenty page internet battle with today but I lose patience when the other poster is deliberately uncomprehending.

 

[signbabybrady]

Actually he was, as it was widely reported Brady played well enough in TC to win the job. Bledsoe had led the team to lose 19 of his last 26 games and looked awful doing so. His contract was the reason he still had the starting job.

Brady comes in and leads the team to an 14-3 record the rest of the way on the way to the teams first SB title. How can you possibly say Brady wasn't better, even from the start?

With Bledsoe they were considered the worst team in football, the change is made and they're SB champs. Please tell me you're not serious.

I say that because I have heard Bill say it. The coaches all thought that Brady had an excellent training camp but that he was still raw and that they were hestitant to give him control not because of the money owed Drew but because of the experience Bledsoe had. At the time of the first game they were not ready to start Brady and I am not sure how you can ignore the fact that once Tom did play his leash was failry short I mean just compare his stats 01 to 03 and you will see Tom improved alot in those first few seasons.

 

[Deus Irae]

Well you don't need me to have an argument because you're just writing fiction at this point. I'm sure there are another 100 or so posters you can have a twenty page internet battle with today but I lose patience when the other poster is deliberately uncomprehending.

Everything I wrote was accurate and on point. However, I suggest we put an end to this. Your attempt to use Bledsoe in your argument was pretty clearly a "jump the shark" moment, and things have only gone down from there.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

I say that because I have heard Bill say it. The coaches all thought that Brady had an excellent training camp but that he was still raw and that they were hestitant to give him control not because of the money owed Drew but because of the experience Bledsoe had. At the time of the first game they were not ready to start Brady and I am not sure how you can ignore the fact that once Tom did play his leash was failry short I mean just compare his stats 01 to 03 and you will see Tom improved alot in those first few seasons.

The comparison was Bledsoe to Brady not Brady 2001 to Brady 2003.

They went from 3 points in game two to 37 (offensive points) in game three.

276 points in 2000 with Bledsoe, 371 points in 2001 with Brady, 5-11 record in 2000, 0-2 record on 2001 for Bledsoe. 14-3 for Brady in 2001.

The improvement was immediate and unquestionable.

 

[signbabybrady]

The comparison was Bledsoe to Brady not Brady 2001 to Brady 2003.

They went from 3 points in game two to 37 (offensive points) in game three.

276 points in 2000 with Bledsoe, 371 points in 2001 with Brady, 5-11 record in 2000, 0-2 record on 2001 for Bledsoe. 14-3 for Brady in 2001.

The improvement was immediate and unquestionable.

My point in comparing Brady 01 to 03 was to show that Brady still had a lot of developement left.

Look my point isnt to say that the 01 Brady was not better then Drew as clearly it was my point is that coming out of camp the coaches did not know this and to assume it was all about the money would be wrong. As I said I have heard BB talk about the situation and he said that Tom did have a great camp and but that they all felt Drew was the more polished QB. Clearly once Drew went down and Brady started playing they were able to see the intangibles that dont show up in camp, notably how you manage the game and how the players follow you and within weeks they knew there was no going back.
Really all I am saying is that there has been a lot of hype about how good Bradys camp was that year and it has sort of reached mythic proportions and if the camp battle really was so one sided then it was a bonehead move to go with Drew in the first place. If you tone it done to what it really was which was a 6th rounder making a name for himself and showing that he deserved a chance to start then it makes more sense as to why Drew got the start.

 

[TruthSeeker]

My point in comparing Brady 01 to 03 was to show that Brady still had a lot of developement left.

Look my point isnt to say that the 01 Brady was not better then Drew as clearly it was my point is that coming out of camp the coaches did not know this and to assume it was all about the money would be wrong. As I said I have heard BB talk about the situation and he said that Tom did have a great camp and but that they all felt Drew was the more polished QB. Clearly once Drew went down and Brady started playing they were able to see the intangibles that dont show up in camp, notably how you manage the game and how the players follow you and within weeks they knew there was no going back.
Really all I am saying is that there has been a lot of hype about how good Bradys camp was that year and it has sort of reached mythic proportions and if the camp battle really was so one sided then it was a bonehead move to go with Drew in the first place. If you tone it done to what it really was which was a 6th rounder making a name for himself and showing that he deserved a chance to start then it makes more sense as to why Drew got the start.

It's been acknowledged by BB and other coaches that Brady had the better training camp. Those that were at training camp confirm this.

BB said that they didn't want to start Brady in 2001 due to his lack of experience - not because he wasn't playing better because Brady was playing better the Bledsoe. I'd also note that changing starting QBs is a highly charged move and not something to be done lightly. The last thing you'd want to do is change QBs and then have to change back if it didn't work out for some reason.

The counter-example to DIs assertion was right on - BB doesn't always choose the best performer to start because there are other considerations. Was this the case with Koppen? Who knows but it's certainly a possibility in my mind.

 

[Deus Irae]

...The counter-example to DIs assertion was right on - BB doesn't always choose the best performer to start because there are other considerations. Was this the case with Koppen? Who knows but it's certainly a possibility in my mind.

The assertion wasn't right on. It was, in fact, wildly off the mark. The Patriots generally ignore the emotional, in favor of the player who gives the team the best chance to win, meaning they are the best player for the team. And, for the record, the experience argument would go towards that. For example, Koppen's ability to read the defenses and make the right line call would be part of what would (assuming he won the job) make him the best player for the team.

 

[Kontradiction]

Report on Patriots blog (can't link to it as it freezes my work computer, saw it on my iPhone) states that Scarnecchia passionately defended Solder's play today, highlighting that Light struggled with pass protection in his rookie season and pointed to who Light replaced (bonus points if you can guess who before pulling up the article).

 

[DocHoliday]

Hard to believe he won the Tuesday Morning NonQB NonRB Award in 2010

 

[signbabybrady]

It's been acknowledged by BB and other coaches that Brady had the better training camp. Those that were at training camp confirm this.

BB said that they didn't want to start Brady in 2001 due to his lack of experience - not because he wasn't playing better because Brady was playing better the Bledsoe. I'd also note that changing starting QBs is a highly charged move and not something to be done lightly. The last thing you'd want to do is change QBs and then have to change back if it didn't work out for some reason.

The counter-example to DIs assertion was right on - BB doesn't always choose the best performer to start because there are other considerations. Was this the case with Koppen? Who knows but it's certainly a possibility in my mind.

I could be wrong on this but I dont recall hearing Bill or anyone say that Tom had the better camp but that he had a good camp in his own right. Not really BBs m.o. to publically compare guys like that.

There were certainly media reports in 01 that Brady was having a good camp and some media may have claimed it to be better then Drews (likely Drew Bashers) but I really think that this assertion has grown thru the years and it is a popular thing to say that I dont feel is truthful of how it really went down.

I am not sure how you can ignore lack of experience in player evaluation. Based on how you phrase it it would seem that BB determined Drew to be the better choice at QB because he was a more experienced player.

I think DI assertion that BB is going to start the better player is spot on. I dont think it needs to be said but obviously BB doesnt get it right everytime and clearly the Drew example is one of those times.

 

[signbabybrady]

Report on Patriots blog (can't link to it as it freezes my work computer, saw it on my iPhone) states that Scarnecchia passionately defended Solder's play today, highlighting that Light struggled with pass protection in his rookie season and pointed to who Light replaced (bonus points if you can guess who before pulling up the article).

Bruce Armstrong :rocker:

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

I could be wrong on this but I dont recall hearing Bill or anyone say that Tom had the better camp but that he had a good camp in his own right. Not really BBs m.o. to publically compare guys like that.

There were certainly media reports in 01 that Brady was having a good camp and some media may have claimed it to be better then Drews (likely Drew Bashers) but I really think that this assertion has grown thru the years and it is a popular thing to say that I dont feel is truthful of how it really went down.

I am not sure how you can ignore lack of experience in player evaluation. Based on how you phrase it it would seem that BB determined Drew to be the better choice at QB because he was a more experienced player.

I think DI assertion that BB is going to start the better player is spot on. I dont think it needs to be said but obviously BB doesnt get it right everytime and clearly the Drew example is one of those times.

From Christopher Price's write up of the Brady 6:

New England Patriots Links 4/13/11 - Belichick Talks About Brady 'Red Flag' In 2000 Draft - Pats Pulpit

"In addition, Belichick said that Brady had a better training camp and preseason than Bledsoe in 2001, but that they went with Bledsoe to start the season because of Brady’s relative inexperience. ..."

 

[signbabybrady]

From Christopher Price's write up of the Brady 6:

New England Patriots Links 4/13/11 - Belichick Talks About Brady 'Red Flag' In 2000 Draft - Pats Pulpit

"In addition, Belichick said that Brady had a better training camp and preseason than Bledsoe in 2001, but that they went with Bledsoe to start the season because of Brady’s relative inexperience. ..."

I stand corrected on the Quote that BB did say Brady had a better camp but again I would point to the inexperience as the final determining factor to who at the time he thought was better or better for the team at that time.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

I stand corrected on the Quote that BB did say Brady had a better camp but again I would point to the inexperience as the final determining factor to who at the time he thought was better or better for the team at that time.

A lot was invested in Bledsoe and it wasn't going to be a decision they could come back from. I'm sure they were giving him a little extra leeway in the hope he would turn it around. In the world of sports, change isn't always immediate. In a situation like this one you have to be 110% sure and then some. They were heavily invested in Bledsoe at the time. It's like a championship fight - you have to knock out the champ - you're not going to win on points.

Bledsoe's play was spiraling downward and the team was losing. BB said Brady had outplayed him in TC and preseason. Brady becomes the QB and the team starts winning.

So clearly the best player for the position did not start the season, whatever the reasoning was.

 

[BananaRepublican]

Tom did play his leash was failry short .

Which means there were real doubts. Those guys didn't have crystal balls. Tom wasn't perfect or developed, he was just playing better at the moment. Nobody had even seen him in a live game.

It took a lot of BALLS for Bill to give Tom the job even after he saw him in live game action. To do that after camp would have been risking total anarchy and collapse of the team. How do you do that for a kid who might get chopped in half or develop bad habits in live games?

 

[signbabybrady]

Which means there were real doubts. Those guys didn't have crystal balls. Tom wasn't perfect or developed, he was just playing better at the moment. Nobody had even seen him in a live game.

It took a lot of BALLS for Bill to give Tom the job even after he saw him in live game action. To do that after camp would have been risking total anarchy and collapse of the team. How do you do that for a kid who might get chopped in half or develop bad habits in live games?

You could argue having won a SB then gives him credit to make these sort of moves but I dont see this as being all that different than cutting Milloy or trading Big Sey weeks before the season or even cutting Kosar back with the Browns. He always said he does whats in the best intrest of the team long and short term. And if he truly felt that Brady was the better player at that time I dont see why it would be any different. The reason Drew started that season was despite Brady outplaying him in Camp and Preseason he still felt Drew was the better player at that time. A few weeks later he knew better and didnt give the keys back to Drew. The rest was history.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The Boston press hated failed in Cleveland BB upon arrival, "pond scum", and there were numerous articles by the press after the 5-11 2000 season speculating that Kraft had him on a short leash and could be fired in his 2nd season despite his contract. Kraft had just spent $100M on the Bledsoe contract. BB probably figured starting Drew was better from a media storm perspective for his rebuilding team and figured he could change mid season if on another 5-12 course. With an 0-2 start losing opening day to the then awful Bungles, BB's job was definitely on the line.