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Anti-government "Patriot" Groups Under Clinton, Bush, Obama

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatsFanInVa, Jul 23, 2014.

  1. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    The organization epitomizes the left and their increasing taste for authoritarianism. The left's impulse to demonize and smear its foes as opposed to engaging them on the level of rational discourse.
    People have perished in this country to protect our rights of free speech. These people write briefs in court where their opposition cannot get a hearing on their speech being violated until their supposed hate speech has been dealt with ... that's a grave problem for free speech.

    Since when is fighting for the freedom of speech and the equality of rights of all people now classified as “hate”? Who exactly annointed the SPLC as the authority in the country on what is allowed as free speech. One thing is for sure ... every time someone on their hit list says something the SPLC dispatches it's people to go make a speech and earn them more money.

    Inflate the Hate is a very fitting meme for these people. Certainly I am not surprised as to who is in their corner in this forum ... several of our resident regular opponents of free speech ... thank God they are nothing more than forum babblers as opposed to political heavyweights. Oh ... yes we also have one of those ... our POTUS is the worst we have had in my lifetime when it comes to protecting free speech.
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  2. DarrylS

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    Forum babblers, interesting way to characterize posters...

    This from the person who finds obscure comments on conspiracy web sites and believes what is said sans verification.....

    You speak in generalities, and have yet to identify any group that is not appropriate for the site... are any of these groups having their free speech violated?? Or maybe there is a deep seated affinity for all of these folks..
    The reality is that the people at Stormfront have been railing about SPLC and Morris Dees for years now and that is paralleled here by the extremists on the right... who appear to know little about their work and what they have accomplished, but because perhaps they identified a group near and dear to them SPLC is bad.

    SPLC over the years has won many awards by different organizations.... if they win they do not share in the settlement, instead it all goes to the parties they represent.. rely solely on donations...
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  3. PatsFanInVa

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    Au contraire, mon frere. I'm a big fan of free speech. Are you?

    How did you feel about the Nazis marching in Skokie, to use one of those ancient examples with which we're all familiar?

    Would you contribute to a group defending their free speech in a trial, or a group like Dees', which would stifle their free speech, if given the choice of joining one group or another?

    Going one step further, if there is a group pledged to support everybody's right to free speech, would you give to that group?

    PFnV
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  4. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Forum Babblers sounds great, it is what it is.
    Think I'll write a song about it...
  5. PatsFanInEaglesLand

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    #37 Jersey

    Not being placed on the SPLC list is up for sale. CAIR and La Raza get a free pass because they're in bed with SPLC.

    Mo Dees is a con artist.

    Just like a certain poster here who is right back to licking the feet of another poster who obviously hates his "kind"
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  6. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey


    I'm not discussing Stormfront
    ... it's a website where people are free to discuss their opinion regardless of how distasteful that may seem to others. My position on SPLC is that they fight free speech when they try to silence people ... it's not complicated ... I believe free speech is what keeps our political process viable. You are against free speech Darryl ... that's your right ... I am not.
  7. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    If you are a big believer in free speech you would oppose SPLC ... let's not pretend here.
    Freedom of speech is actions and words ... you are defending people whose aim it is to silence.

    Any and all groups are free to speak their mind peacefully in accordance with the laws of our country, state, and local municipality in which they are speaking it. It can be very ugly at times but it is a crucial part of our vibrant democracy and it helps to keep some element of control in the hands of the citizens. Freedom of speech is an open air marketplace of ideas and it allows citizens to be part of the government.

    The countries that do not have this have people who do not have freedom. We are not 100% as free as we would like ... but for the most part our freedom is very good. If SPLC had more control we would have less freedom ... they are working at it.
  8. PatsFanInVa

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    So all I'm asking, and we'll just drop the skokie example, is would you put your money where your mouth is and support a group that would do the opposite of what you see Dees doing -- that is, going to court to protect freedom of speech?

    Your argument seems to be that there's no such thing as hate speech, and therefore, all the work SPLC does tracking and countering hate crimes of all kinds has no value.

    Maybe you just mean that any time Dees' group takes action against hate speech, that has no value.

    I am not trying to put words in your mouth. I just want to know whether you'd back a group that takes the pro-free speech side in court as their guiding light?

    PFnV
  9. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    A discussion with you is fruitless as you choose to change the words spoken here.
    I never said there's no such thing as hate speech.

    If you want to have an adult conversation it starts with an honest exchange of words spoken.
  10. PatsFanInVa

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    As I said, I am not trying to put words in your mouth.

    The question is, would you back a group that goes to court to guarantee rights of free speech, no matter how offensive that speech may take or what its form?

    Or by asking you this question, have I somehow mis-characterized you or your sympathies or phrasing?
  11. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    [​IMG]
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  12. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    I would not back - support - or work against any group exercising their 1st Amendment rights. So long as they are exercising their speech peacefully ... regardless of how distasteful it may seem to others or myself. There is nothing I agree with in reference to any Nazi Party ... I find their viewpoint reprehensible ... but I respect that they have a right to speak and if I wish I have a right to speak against.

    1st Amendment is not rocket science ... it keeps our democracy strong and viable. In some other countries they kill and have wars to be the ones in charge ... 1st Amendment works to stop that from happening here as all speech gets heard ... people make their voting opinions based on those words and leaders are elected to hopefully be bound to the wishes of the electorate and their district as a whole.

    Freedom of speech has been under assault since Obama was elected. People get phone calls from the WH when their speech is not what the WH expects to be heard. Media outlets are getting shunned for not following the modus operandi of the WH. As free speech has been assaulted there are groups becoming angrier because the media is afariad to cover them ... the media is a fraid to give them print and air time ... and the anger intensifies.

    Well what does the left expect of the right whose speech is being blunted. Should they just go home and shrug their shoulders? Or should they do what our forefathers intended and speak louder and louder and peacefully at the same time. This is what our forefathers envisioned in the future ... public discourse as an instrument to a vibrant republic (democracy).

    Anyone who is against free speech is simply not a proud and true American IMO.
    Anyone who is against free speech has no respect for those who fought for it.
    Anyone who is against free speech needs to live in a country without it for several years.

    Come back and let us know how valuable true and honest free speech really is.
    Ever notice the people in the forum who are least respectful of other opinions are also the same ones who have no problem restricting the speech of others ... as the SPLC attempts to do daily.
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  13. PatsFanInVa

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    So you would not back my right to speak freely? If, for example, I were in your town, and they put me in jail for saying "The Tea Party sucks!", you would have no opinion on the matter?

    The right to free speech simply "is," yet it is now "under assault," yet we should do nothing about it?

    I think if you believe in the broadest possible interpretation of free speech, you should support it, if you really care.

    But if you just ramble about it when people note stats collected by a guy who tracks hate groups, it's a red herring.

    Now, if you really believe in free speech, you could actually support its exercise.

    But in your post - and forgive me if I am misreading your position - you seem to think that it's good to say your opinion on free speech, but not address the idea of backing freedom of speech in court.

    What is your position on an organization that backs free speech in court, which is where the boundaries of free speech are determined?

    Would you be for an organization that seeks to expand the boundaries of free speech, and takes cases fromn all political and religious "sides," whether popular or unpopular?

    Or are you against helping those people secure their right to free speech?
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    Last edited: Jul 26, 2014
  14. DarrylS

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    The popularity on Stormfront demonstrates who this argument appeals to..

    You speak of free speech being infringed, could you please be specific.. most of the stuff I have looked at seems to be a little more than free speech.

    They do not try to silence, all they do is inform and educate.

    The effort to demonize this group is appalling, the lack of consistency of argument shows the difficulty in trying to prove a point, any point.

    All the while the good they have done is neglected...
  15. PatsFanInVa

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    Screw Stormfront, I was going for the ACLU.

    Here ya go Icy. Comes in wallet size too!
    [​IMG]
  16. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    The ACLU is "ok" by me except they have no real intent to protect the 2nd amendment. That gives them a fairly significant authoritarian slant in my opinion.
  17. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Perhaps if you researched their lawsuits you would see how wrong you are.

    Even when shown court material you will say it's been edited.
  18. DarrylS

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    Alleged Court Material on Morris Dees, does not equate with what SPLC has accomplished, in all of their law suits they never have taken money from the litigant..

    I have followed their lawsuits since when the initially sued Richard Butler and his merry bunch of Aryans, and they have done a good job... here is a history of their lawsuits.

    http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/case-docket

    You have yet to identify who in Hatewatch you have issues with...
  19. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    They used to the court system to try and silence Westboro:
    http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform.../summer/anti-gay-westboro-baptist-church-wins

    There's numerous examples of this and more and frankly it's a waste of time proving what everyone except for hard core liberals already know. They do some good work ... I acknowledged that ... it is their attempts to stifle speech which is my problem with them.
  20. Harry Boy

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    I'll say it again "anti government patriots are scared"

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