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Anti-government "Patriot" Groups Under Clinton, Bush, Obama

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatsFanInVa, Jul 23, 2014.

  1. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    The Grange ... The Black Panthers ... The Populist Party ...

    Martin Luther King ... Vietnam war protesters ... Woman's suffrage movement.

    NAACP ...

    Just to name a few ... Angry extremists or great americans in history?
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Who authored the captioned article?? Are they ashamed of using their name?? An Aryan group leader??

    I did not pick them, you are aware that nothing ever came of that and it has been described as a smear campaign against Dees by extreme right wing groups... I had the same question several years ago and wrote to SPLC and they clarified this situation.

    Good luck reading the report you captioned..

    Posters are incredible as they demonize a group who has successfully taken out Nazi Sympathizers and identified hate groups across this country from white supremacists, Islam radicals, black separatists and other hate groups...
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Here are there financial reports if interested... what are administrative costs?? Does not look like 89% to this viewer...

    http://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/downloads/resource/splc_financialstatement2013.pdf
  4. DarrylS

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  5. PatsFanInVa

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    And of course, the rallying cry of the right when confronted with their problem with hate groups... nut uh, you're a hate group. Thanks for cutting straight to the inevitable absurdity at the end of the attack-the-source crazy train.

    You guys have gone way off the rails -- too far off the rails to discuss data.

    PFnV
  6. PatsFanInVa

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  7. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    It's from a court case bunky ......... a real factual court case from his divorce.
  8. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    When your point is not a good one ... deflect and run ...

    Point is simple PF ... we are a freedom of speech country.

    What your side does not like is labeled hate speech ... it's easy to understand.

    There's lots of speech I don't care for ... but everyone is free to speak their mind in this country.
  9. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Hate speech vs hate speech ... so one is better than the other ... okay if you say so.
  10. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Inflate the hate PF ... inflate the hate and make it personal ... you're a real piece of work.
  11. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Average spent on programs is 65%
    United Way demands 80%
    SPLC overall is at around 56%

    Got to keep Mr. Dees and company well funded in their homefronts.

    http://nccs.urban.org/resources/faq.cfm

    30 cents on the buck is what you get by throwing money Mr. Dee's way.
  12. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    That's not data, apparently.
  13. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Some here get hateful when they are trying to defend an anti hate org.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. DarrylS

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    It does not appear to meet what we normally see in a court document... so might want to verify your source, had heard this in the past early 2000 I think.. and believe it was debunked.

    Always helpful to have a verifiable source, and not some blog that has no author or context..

    Are these guys whoever they are, on the hatewatch list??

    http://www.zianet.com/web/

    How Liberalism violates all 10 commandments..
    A giant, gaping hole in Sandy Hook Reporting..
    The Crusades in Context...
  15. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sometimes I think I live in a parallel universe, as when you look at what SPLC has done over the years I see a lot of good, from taking out Richard Butler and his NAZI Crew on down the line.. they have always been a positive force in America on the side of justice...

    In many ways they are like ACLU, they do a lot of stuff, which is not always popular but always within the limits of the constitution and the law in general..

    Their teaching tolerance is commendable, what I do not understand is the vitriol for trial attorney salaries.. Dees and his crew have been very successful in Court on many different fronts.

    Perhaps in this polarized world, makes sense.. but to this viewer it does not. It is what it is, an organization that has done a lot of good, and hatewatch has been around for quite a while now and have identified many groups on both sides of the aisle whether it be aryan groups, islam groups, black separatist groups or any other group that espouses hate..

    FYI Hatewatch is the name they use today, but in the 80's they called it "Klan Watch"... but have changed to reflect changing America.. take some time and read about the Board of Directors, a lot of heavyweight folks who have made a difference in our country.

    http://www.splcenter.org/who-we-are/board-of-directors
  16. DarrylS

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  17. The Brandon Five

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    #75 Jersey

    The number of "hate" groups there are really depends on who is doing the counting. This isn't like tracking the temperature by day.

    I mean how many of these groups that David Horowitz's group have identified as anti-semitic are on the SPLC list?

    http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewGroups.asp?catid=188
  18. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Defend - Deflect - Rinse - Repeat

    You're hero is a pervert pedo bear ........
  19. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Some Americans value free speech Darryl ...

    Always thought you were not one of the one's who did value it ...

    Now you have proven it ... SPLC may do some good ... they are also anti free speech
    and as such they will not get any recommendations from me. Free speech is not always pretty ... even you agreed I believe that Westboro had a right to it ... SPLC thinks they will redefine it and/or profit from it. Americans dies defending free speech ... SPLC has no right to take it away - that is as anti-American as it gets.
  20. PatsFanInVa

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    So I take it your "11%" was random, and now you say 30%, oh and by the way I, personally, am a "piece of work."

    You can look through their very readable financial statements and cashflows and immediately see the source of the numbers game you're playing here. The bulk of money SPLC has is an endowment. It's invested to earn money. It's big. I am sure you don't like that, especially since they appear to pay their director north of 300K. Since nobody else looks at real sources, the tax form is below.

    Here's the deal, Icy: They have an endowment. That gets invested. It earns money. You can't just pull some out for play money. You can use it when there is a resource-intensive case to go after.

    They have an operating budget. That's where the year's funds are.

    Most of the operating budget gets spent on the cases they take, end of story. But if you include that big fat chunk of change in the endowment, you get a terribly low number.

    The way they phrase it is as follows:

    Our work is supported primarily through donor contributions. We do not receive or use government funds. During the last fiscal year, approximately 68% of our total expenses were spent on program services. At the end of the fiscal year, our endowment – a special, board-designated fund established to support our future work – stood at $245.3 million. We are proud of the stewardship of our resources.​

    Frankly, SPLC's tracking of hate groups is a well-known resource, left or center. I can't speak for the right, because Dees tracks hate groups. While people on the moderate left don't bristle at tracking hate groups, people on the extremes get upset when their extremist friends are tracked, regardless of which side. The difference is there's a sliver on the extremes on the left. "Extreme" is mainstream on the right at the moment.

    Hence the really reflexive reaction to the mention of SPLC tracking.

    I don't give money to Dees' organization. They seem well-positioned to go after some pretty big cases, and good on them. It's not like they just pocket the war-chest - most of it, that is.

    On their tax-form, available right on their website, they disclose having 271 employees, whom they paid $16.527 million, for a mean income of about $61,000. In addition they had 17 volunteers.

    http://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/downloads/resource/splc_tax_return.pdf

    Total revenue less expenses was $2,715,355. Most of their revenue was from contributions. A large chunk was from investment interest.

    Salaries, benefits, and compensation were a significant part of their expenses, i.e., paying their guys to do their jobs (16.5 million out of 40 million). I am very sorry they don't work for free, Icy. Other lawyers don't either.

    On page 7 (board of directors/keyworkers) you'll indeed find Dees' compensation as chief trial counsel at 316,295, plus 38,432 in "other compensation." Richard Cohen, the Director and CEO, pulls in north of 300 as well. Two other employees make in the 150s and one employee makes in the 140s (plus "other compensation" that may get them into the 180s). As for the rest of the Board, they are uncompensated.

    Your confusion seems to be that you equate a non-profit with a soup-kitchen. You can do good work on a shoestring with volunteer labor at a soup kitchen.

    I am not sure the same is true of SPLC. By analogy, the difference between the public defenders and a good paid defense attorney is largely responsible for the fact that a defendant gets the justice he can afford. And public defenders are compensated - just not as much as private attorneys can make.

    The charity part comes in when you ask whether the victim of the hate crime pays for his top-notch lawyer himself. SPLC is able to provide legal help (averaging, across the firm, a salary of 61K per year, including everything from clerks to Dees) regardless of their ability to afford it.

    So, that's the model.

    If you don't like the model, don't contribute. It's not trying to do the work of a poverty relief organization, where you expect the money to go to food, shelter, etc. It's doing the work of a law center, where the bulk of what's contributed goes to providing a service. They provide that service by paying people who are good at that service. And they don't pay them a king's ransom.

    I'd venture to say Dees is among the top in his field, and that's being conservative, no pun intended.

    Let's look at the praise Business Insider lavishes on the "rare breed" of trial lawyers:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/10-lawyers-you-dont-want-to-see-across-the-aisle-2010-1?op=1

    Their first schoolgirl crush is on Phil Beck, the guy who stopped the recount when Bush was appointed president.

    I can't find Bartlitt-Beck's financials as easily I could SPLC's. In fact, a cursory search turned up nothing but this article, on the general idea of what you can make as a trial lawyer. I did find this,
    listing a trial lawyer making north of 1000 times what Dees took home last year... and that was in the 1980s.

    http://business.highbeam.com/392705/article-1G1-8024829/best-paid-trial-lawyers

    So, give to them if you want. Don't if you don't. But don't slavishly copy and paste rubbish from the blogosphere and articles about the "Church of Mo Dees" because he make north of 300K as a nationally known trial attorney.

    If you're really into smearing SPLC, ask what the endowment is and what it's for. They say it's for future cases. But how can they spend hundreds of millions on one case... unless they hire lawyers like the one linked above?

    But the idea that you should compare them to folks who ship wheat to africa or something and declare SPLC a scam is just bonkers.

    And back to the main point:

    We have clear data on when hate groups flourish (When there are Dems in office to hate) and when they die down (When there are Pubbies in office to accomplish their agendas.)

    Any comments on the actual topic of the thread, ol' buddy ol' pal?

    PFnV

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