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Anthony Rashad White's injury settlement

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Miguel, Sep 17, 2013.

  1. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Have deduced that Anthony Rashad White's injury settlement was for 10 weeks creating 118,589 in cap space. Cap space as of today = 7,551,032.
     
  2. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Thanks Miguel as always.

    By being paid for 10 weeks, has White now accrued an official NFL season?
    Also, if he is signed by another team before Week 10, does the difference revert
    to the Pats' cap savings?
     
  3. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I do not understand the timing of the injury settlement for White.

    I recall reading that when a player is waived/injured and goes unclaimed off waivers, he then reverts to Injured Reserve. Then once he is on IR the player has five days to reach an injury settlement with the team. If he reaches an injury settlement he then becomes a free agent and can sign elsewhere; if he does not then he stays on IR with the club for the full season.

    In White's case he was released (actually waived/injured as it turned out) on August 27 as part of the cuts to get down to the 75-man roster limit. However, he was not released off IR with an injury settlement until September 14.

    Do I have incorrect information regarding that five-day window to reach an injury settlement? Or is this a case where the injury settlement happened earlier, but the public did not know about until two weeks later?
     
  4. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think that many of us are confused by the situation with the IR.

    Which players have signed settlements and are eligible to return this year? If the players are not on someone else's 53, when are each of these players available to us?

    Which players are on season-ending IR and will be available to us next year? I expect that we would sign a injury settlement with any player whose contract was up this year.
     
  5. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Great question. A player need 6 games to get credit for an accrued season. The CBA says "For the purposes of calculating Accrued Seasons under this Agreement, a player shall receive one Accrued Season for each season during which he was on, or should have been on, full pay status for a total of six or more regular season games". So I am leaning towards no. I have heard of an instance of a player being granted an accrued season as part of an injury settlement.

    Cincinnati Bengals: Richard Quinn

    There is no way for me to find out if that happened with White.

    It could but I doubt that there is offset language included in an injury settlement.
     
  6. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It could be that if a team reaches an injury settlement with a player within 5 days of waiving the injured player they are then allowed to resign that player later that season. But if they do not they can not sign the player to a contract later that season.
     
  7. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Wilson, Adrian
    Cunningham, Jermaine
    Green, Tyrone
    Zusevics, Markus
    Moe, T.J.
    Fisher, Elvis
    Grissom, Cory
    Hines, Quentin
    Schwab, Brice
    Rashad White, Anthony
    Francis, Justin
    McDonald, Chris
    Aiken, Kamar
    Patterson, Luke
    Haggerty, Johnathan
    Ford, Brandon
    Tuinei, Lavasier
    Mattes, R.J.

    were reported to have been placed on IR this year.

    Rashad White, Anthony
    Francis, Justin
    McDonald, Chris
    Aiken, Kamar
    Patterson, Luke
    Haggerty, Johnathan
    Ford, Brandon
    Tuinei, Lavasier
    Mattes, R.J.
    were reported to have injury settlements with the Patriots.
     
  8. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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  9. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Assuming that's correct, who would have some plausible chance of returning to the Patriots this season?

    The obvious ones to think of are Chris McDonald, Justin Francis, Jermaine Cunningham among those who seem to have received injury settlements, and -- except that they evidently didn't -- Zusevics, Grissom, and maybe more DTs.
     
  10. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I am also under the understanding that if a club releases a player with an injury settlement then he cannot return to that same team to play for a specific period of time; if I am not mistaken it is six weeks, but without taking the time to look that up it may be longer than that.


    The waived/injured designation is only in effect from the beginning of the league year in March, until the first roster cut-down date. During that time period non-vested players (i.e., less than four accrued seasons) have to go through this process and cannot be placed directly on Injured Reserve (e.g., the Giants with Jake Ballard a year ago; the Pats with TJ Moe this year). Vested veterans (four or more years service time) can be placed directly on IR at any time.


    In theory injury settlements are based on the amount of time that the club and player agree that the player would be unable to play due to the injury. So if the the thought is that he would miss four weeks then he gets 4/17 of his salary, if the two sides agree the injury would cause him to miss eight weeks then he should get 8/17 of his salary, etc.
     
  11. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The open question is whether the potential return date to the original team is tied to the amount of weeks implicit in the agreement. I presume that other teams are free to sign the player in the interim.

    I too am interested in Cunningham, and in Justin Francis.

     
  12. Gwedd

    Gwedd PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm betting that the Patriots have at least one staffer, and maybe 2-3 in a committee/team whose sole job is to keep track of all of the IR/Waived/Settlement/Released players and their availability, rules, finances, etc.

    It'd be important to have a data base with all the players and their status to hand and available right quickly when/if roster moves have to be made.
     
  13. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I compiled a table of the players who were placed on IR and the days that their injured settlements were announced. I have some doubts that the players in bold reached injury settlements with the Patriots. Trying to nail down that information.

    IR Date Waived/Injured Date Difference
    Hines, Quentin 05/07/2013
    Moe, T.J. 06/03/2013
    Fisher, Elvis 08/03/2013
    Tuinei, Lavasier 08/03/2013
    Ford, Brandon 08/13/2013 08/17/2013 4
    Green, Tyrone 08/15/2013
    Mattes, R.J. 08/20/2013 08/24/2013 4
    Zusevics, Markus 08/26/2013
    Grissom, Cory 08/26/2013
    Aiken, Kamar 08/26/2013 09/06/2013 11
    Schwab, Brice 08/27/2013
    Rashad White, Anthony 08/27/2013 09/14/2013 18
    Patterson, Luke 08/30/2013
    Haggerty, Johnathan 08/30/2013

    Wilson, Adrian 08/31/2013
    Cunningham, Jermaine 09/01/2013 09/06/2013 5
    Francis, Justin 09/01/2013 09/06/2013 5
    McDonald, Chris 09/01/2013 09/04/2013 3
     
  14. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I was wrong and you are correct; the length of time before a player may return to the original club is indeed tied to the amount of time negotiated with the injury settlement.

    According to Jason at OverTheCap.com the length of time a player is eligible to return to the original club is not six weeks from the time of the waived/injured settlement that I thought it was, but is six weeks on top of the length of the injury settlement.

    What Exactly are Injury Settlements? - Over the Cap

    When a minor injury occurs a determination is made for weeks that the player will miss due to injury. The options would be to hold the player until he is healthy enough to be released or to have the two sides agree right away as to the amount of weeks that the injury should keep the player sidelined.

    Once the weeks are agreed upon the team simply agrees to pay the player as if he was on the roster for those weeks. Teams and players have a 5 day window to agree to this settlement. Once the settlement occurs the player is again released from the team (in most cases exposed to waivers), except in this situation the player can return to the team, with a bit of a catch. The player is not allowed to return to the team until the length of the settlement passes plus another 6 weeks.

    Let’s see how this works in practice. An undrafted rookie player gets injured at the end of training camp and is waived with an injury designation, so that a team that claims him knows that they are claiming an injured player. If he goes unclaimed, which is likely, he reverts back to the teams Injured list. From that point the team and player have five days to negotiate the settlement.

    Because this is a rookie he will have a split salary of $288,000. That is the baseline price that the two sides work with. They agree that the injury will sideline the player for two regular season weeks. The two sides now agree to an injury settlement of $33,822 and change. That is the same salary as if they carried him on IR for two weeks. The player is again waived with the knowledge that he agreed to a settlement for an existing injury.

    The player is then free to sign with any team in the NFL at that point and agrees to waive all rights to compensation from the team in the event the injury turns out to be more serious than expected. The player will be eligible to re-sign with the team in Week 9, which is the two week settlement period plus six week waiting period. ​
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2013
  15. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thank you for looking this up. We're almost there.

    Now, for the players that we are interested in, we need the number of weeks paid in the injury settlement. We have the beginning dates. We will then have enough information.

    The example below is 2 week paid settlement plus 6 weeks out, player is available for the 9th week. Practically, the player will also need a couple of weeks of practice time to be expected to be effective. For Cunningham, we might have reinforcements for the playoff run. With regard to Francis, we would sign him and have a young prospect on the team, although I could see him being more useful than Bequette even this year.

     

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