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Another War Film

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatsWickedPissah, Feb 2, 2006.

  1. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Starring gary Busey and Billy Zane, soon to be Hollywood heros...

    http://www.kfccinema.com/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1138894643&archive=

    In the most expensive Turkish movie ever made, American soldiers in Iraq crash a wedding and pump a little boy full of lead in front of his mother.

    They kill dozens of innocent people with random machine gun fire, shoot the groom in the head, and drag those left alive to Abu Ghraib prison where a Jewish doctor cuts out their organs, which he sells to rich people in New York, London and Tel Aviv. {Just lovely, PWP}

    Valley of the Wolves Iraq, set to open in Turkey on Friday, feeds off the increasingly negative feelings many Turks harbor toward their longtime NATO allies: Americans.
  2. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well that's really disgusting. I suppose it's another byproduct of our war on Iraq.
  3. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    Bzzzzzzt. Try again. This is the by-product of radical Islam, which is starting to morph into normal Islam. Everything American and Jewish are evil.
  4. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Try to think critically. Not everything in the universe is Bush's fault despite what you get from the mainstream media and the left wing blogs like Daily Kos.

    This is a product of knee-jerk Islamic hatred for anything remotely sympathetic to Jews or the west, exacerbated by Hollywood style leftists.
  5. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    ...Except money, hip-hop, California girls and weapons. It's really a love-hate thing the Turks have for us. Not just the Turks - everybody. They hate doing what they're told by us as we dangle trade and protection in front of them. It was like that when the Brits controlled the ME, and now its the USA who is in power. It's and ancient geo-political position - the Turks have always been in the crossroads between the East and West and they have developed a truly schiziphrenic national mentality but have learned to live with it.

    This is not "radical Islamism". It's how it ever was.
  6. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    THE ISLAMIC RELIGION AND MUSLIMS WORLDWIDE:

    Keep kissing their rectums and the day will come when they "run the show" then watch the "FAR LEFT liberal heads roll".

    Do you think the "Nation Of Islam" would put up with a city like San Francisco?
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2006
  7. Turk

    Turk Rookie

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    PFIEL, actually you may want to try again.
    Here is some background information:
    The "Valley of the Wolves" was a mini series on Turkish TV and then they made a movie because the series was hugely popular. The mini-series' theme, originally, was organized crime, much like a mafia movie, Godfather, Wise Guys, etc. and how organized crime was international, much like any business these days. Sharon Stone and Andy Garcia made guest appearances on the mini series as crime bosses.

    Then an actual event took place, an event that damaged further the American - Turkish relationship where the Turkish military building in Iraq was raided by American soldiers and all Turkish military personnel in uniform and otherwise, after they had properly identified themselves, were still taken in for questioning in handcuffs and hoods on their heads. They were held for 2.5 days with no charges, and questioned. This is what we did to our ally.

    After realizing that an international scandal was brewing and that the relationship with the Turks was hugely damaged, the Turkish military personnel were let go with a statement that their arrest and questioning was a mistake, based upon an unreliable informant. No apologies were ever issued.

    Now, ask anyone that knows anything about Turks, about their military, how proud they are of their military, and what kind of soldiers they are.
    Ask any American Korean veteran about Turks and how one thousand of them marched knowingly to their deaths, in order to save the lives of a few thousand of their American comrades.
    This is what you do for your ally.


    How did we repay our ally? That is another sad chapter in itself that I won't get into, now.

    I shudder to think what would have happened if the Turkish officer in charge had not ordered his soldiers to lower their guns and blood had spilled.

    So, the mini series being as popular as it was, with the Turkish crime boss in the series enjoying the kind of attention and success as James Gandolfini of the Sopranos, decided to make a hero out of him after all and the mini series ended with him getting revenge, not in a bloody way but by exposing all the wrongs about this war and its participants.

    The movie is loosely based upon the same subject, and nowhere in the movie is the issue, one of religion. It is about greed and how even partnerships as old as the Turkish - American ones are shadowed by it. It is about a Turkish crime boss with National honor.
    Nowhere in the mini series or the movie is it ever a war of religions.

    The movie has nothing to do with religion.

    You could not be more wrong on how the Turks feel about Christians and or Jews.
    Turks, to show you wrong you are, are the only country that issued fake passports to Jews, so that they could escape from the Nazis.
    There is a movie directed by Victoria Barrett, named Desperate Hours, on this subject matter. Contrary to what you may be seeing in movies made these days, Europeans, especially the French, were for the most part, volunteering to turn in their Jewish citizens to the Nazis.
    The US turned away more Jews than it took in.
    In the meantime, thousands of fake passports were issued to French Jews by the Turkish ambassador to Paris so that many lives could be saved.

    Many years prior to this, in Spain when the Sephardic Jews were the victims of a genocide by the Spaniards, it was the Turkish (Ottoman) Sultan that sent his fleet so that they could be saved and issued Turkish citizenship.
    It was again, another Turkish (Ottoman) Sultan that ordered that the Jews have a home in their promised land, thus ordering the foundation of the state of Israel.

    Sam Weems, a retired Arkansas judge, writes in his book about September 11. He happened to be writing a book at the time and was in Turkey, doing research. He writes about how people were openly weeping, how he was hugged by so many people when they learned that he was an American, how the Turkish PM was one of the first to condemn this and all acts of terrorism and offer help. Mr Weems was so touched by this that he writes about being reminded of humanity and humility by the average Turk.

    Polls at that time, around 9/11, in Turkey, were around 90% in favor of participating alongside the US in a war in Afghanistan against Bin Laden, the Taliban, Al Qaida,
    and they did, and they still are.
    Because of this participation, many acts of terrorism were committed in Turkey by Al-Qaida, with many Turkish casualties.

    Is this the picture of a religious fanatic country that hates anything non-Muslim, indiscriminately?

    One last note is that on episodes of 24 and the West Wing, the story line was that of a woman getting stoned to death, and state sponsorship of terrorism, by Turkey, last year. Because of this, should the Turks feel that the average American hates Turks and has this false, ugly picture in his head about Turkey? How ignorant, how superficial is that?

    It is 100%, the current administration, that is responsible for the damaged Turkish American relationship's current state, which thankfully is in recovery mode.

    Turk
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2006
  8. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    The girl who cuts my hair is from Turkey - and Aramaic (same ethnicity as Jesus)Christian - who came here for economic reasons and to feel less isolated. I asked her if she had a hard time there, she said that it was tough to make a living in her region for everybody but she felt too different culturally there, but that local muslims there were very kind as they considered themselves Turks more than Muslims, like most American Christians feel these days
  9. Turk

    Turk Rookie

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    Istanbul is a magnificient city

    Here is an article about Istanbul, Turkey.


    Two Americans find warmth in Muslim Istanbul
    Sunday, February 05, 2006
    RACHEL BACHMAN
    The Oregonian
    An announcement crackles through the packed tram, and we follow hundreds of people -- nearly all men -- off the tram and back onto the transit platform.

    We crane our necks toward a cluster of people near what looks to be police tape.
    It is our first day in a Muslim country, and this, we think, is our introduction.

    A man speaks to me in Turkish, then nods. I don't understand a word. I turn and ask a man, in English, "What is it?"

    "Bom-buh," he says, his hands rising in a mushroom cloud. "Bom-buh."

    Then he smiles.

    The crowd dissipates, and we file back onto the tram, where several women in headscarves sit. In a few minutes, the tram glides away.

    Given recent world history, I was not sure how two obvious outsiders would be received in Turkey, whose population is overwhelmingly Muslim. But my travel
    companion, Cliff, and I found during a four-day visit that Istanbul is one of the most beautiful, gracious and -- for Americans -- unspoiled big cities in Europe.

    The total of our preparation for Istanbul was a quick flip through a Lonely Planet guide. But there were early hints that visiting Istanbul would be different from staying in Paris, Berlin or Madrid, where our trip began.

    A card tucked into our Turkish Airlines meal read: "This meal does not contain pork," with a small pig crossed out in red ink. When we arrived at our hotel
    room, a sign in the bathroom warned that the tap water was "undrinkable." And Cliff, 6-foot-3, and I, 5-foot-8, towered over most people in Istanbul, a city
    of 10 million to 20 million, Lonely Planet tells us, depending on how many of the nation's many migrant workers happen to be there.

    Everywhere we looked, we saw the collision of the traditional and the new, the handmade and the mass-produced, the religious and the secular.

    Slick coffeehouses stocked with art magazines overlooked the occasional old woman begging on the street. Smooth-talking salesmen of fine rugs worked
    alongside street vendors offering passersby the use of a bathroom scale for pennies. A modern music store played Pink Martini's "Sympathique," followed by the wail of evening prayers from a nearby mosque's loudspeaker.

    The food combined fresh-baked taste with Old World prices. My favorites: orange juice that shopkeepers squeezed in front of us, and doughy snacks layered with
    spinach or sprinkled with powdered sugar, each for $1.50 or less.

    Few people in Istanbul spoke fluent English, and many spoke almost none at all.
    But the locals were warm and curious about us.

    Most places we went, people stared or at least glanced at Cliff and me. In Turkey we were curiosities: he a dark-skinned African American, I a fair-skinned
    blonde, both of us nearly a head taller than our Turkish counterparts.

    A city on two continents

    Nowhere did we stick out more than when we ferried to Asian Istanbul, a 15-minute trip across the Bosporus. Istanbul straddles Europe and Asia, the world's only city on two continents.

    As we boarded the boat, a man sprinted toward us, begging us to pose for a picture with him. We smiled as his companion snapped a photo, and I wondered how
    he would explain the shot to his friends.

    The Asian side of Istanbul was more conservative, with many more women wearing headscarves. We also got more unabashed stares there. Kids outside an apartment
    complex stopped playing soccer when we passed and asked in their best English, "Where are you from?"

    I was curious, too, about the influence of Islam on Turkey. In preparation for visiting the majestic Blue Mosque, featured on many Istanbul postcards, I
    stopped at a shop in the fashionable Taksim Square neighborhood. I approached a young saleswoman and motioned to her headscarf, indicating I wanted to buy one.
    She pointed to her headscarf as if to confirm my question, and I nodded. She shook her head.

    But a split second later she was pulling a scarf from a high pile and looping it under my chin. Then she flashed a shy smile.

    The shopping experience was more intense at the Grand Bazaar, a labyrinthine building of rug and souvenir shops where the vendors are more than willing to
    bargain. I bought several ceramic bowls with whirling dervishes painted on them -- although we missed seeing the famed meditative dancers -- and asked the
    salesman where the shopkeepers prayed.

    There is a small mosque in the bazaar, he said. But in the bazaar, as in the rest of Istanbul, most people seemed to greet the prayer announcements indifferently. They stayed at the cafe, at the bus stop, at their T-shirt stand.

    Are people praying on their own time? I wondered. Are there unwritten rules about Turkish Islam? Perhaps we could find out.

    We left the bazaar and ate decadent desserts (they are everywhere in Istanbul) at a sidewalk cafe. I heard the prayers again, noticing a boy across the street
    kicking a soccer ball throughout them.

    We went back to the bazaar for a few final souvenirs, and a salesman who twice had tracked us in the huge maze spotted us again.

    "God sent me here," he said. We couldn't argue with that, and ended up spending
    about 30 minutes in the rug shop where he worked, sipping from clear glasses the apple tea that Turks serve to friends and tourists alike. I made one lowball
    offer on a beautiful rug I didn't need and was relieved when the shop owner let us go gracefully.

    "We can be friends," he said, smiling, "but we can't have business."

    Religion and honesty

    Our final tourist stop was the Blue Mosque, where I was hoping to get more than snapshots. We hired a guide for 5 euros (tourist guides accepted euros, while
    most shopkeepers did not), and he fed us the facts about the height of the soaring center dome and the regions in Turkey where the blue-and-white tiles that climb the interior walls were made.

    Then, quietly, he seated us in the back of the mosque near the sectioned-off area where the women pray. We waited a few minutes, then realized nearly all the
    other tourists were gone. Afternoon prayers began, and we saw the men, far in front, and the women, just behind us, stand, kneel and bend to the ground in
    unison. The waves of movement were captivating.

    Then, just as the prayers gathered momentum, a cell phone echoed in the great cavern -- a shrill secular intrusion. I smiled ruefully. Some problems are
    universal.

    We stopped at yet another cafe after the Blue Mosque, and our waiter soon asked where we were from. We struck up a conversation, eventually exchanging e-mail
    addresses, and I asked about the lack of public reaction to prayer announcements.

    "We are soft Muslims," he explained. He had not been to mosque in five years, he said, and he and many of his friends drink beer.

    I began to consider that perhaps for some people in Turkey, like people in parts of so-called "Catholic" countries in Western Europe, Istanbul is less a
    religious city than it is a big, exciting city with as many possibilities as it has ancient, winding streets.

    But our most memorable moment came as we left Cambaz, a laid-back Taksim Square night club. Our waiter charged us the equivalent of $15 for a bottle of water
    and a beer -- a sum we knew was inflated from our visit a few nights earlier.

    Here it is, I thought, the rip-off of the Americans.

    I questioned our waiter about the bill, but without Turkish, I didn't get far.
    So I paid it, and we headed toward the stairs. But as we reached the landing, a man called out to us. At first I thought he was another photo seeker. But he
    walked down and asked us how much we had paid for our drinks.

    I told him, and he looked to the top of the stairs, calling our waiter down to apologize. Clearly, this man was some sort of supervisor, perhaps the manager or
    owner of the Cambaz. Then he counted out the equivalent of about $10 in Turkish lira, gave it to us and apologized himself.

    I was dumbstruck. We were as good as gone -- for all he knew, never to return to Istanbul -- and yet he chased us down to do the right thing.

    At that moment I did not feel like a rich American or a hated American. I felt like an honored guest.

    Rachel Bachman: 503-221-4373; rachelbachman@...
  10. Turk

    Turk Rookie

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    What city is she from Wistah? Just curious.
    Thanks.
  11. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A ferry sank somewhere "over there" hundreds of muslim lives were lost, Nancy Pelosi has been in her home for two days trying to figure out a way to Blame Bush for it.
  12. Turk

    Turk Rookie

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    This is your contribution to this discussion?
    What happened "over there" was in Egypt, in the Red Sea, a few THOUSAND miles away from Istanbul, Turkey, which is the topic of this discussion, and after this massive loss of life, all you can add is your tasteless, uncaring, sophomoric humor?
    Do you not see that it is your own version in the Muslim world that you hate? Harry Boy's of this world are in every country, every culture.
    They don't care about human life, unless it is one of their own.
  13. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It wasn't meant to be humor, those same people that are now wailing in the streets by the Red Sea were again dancing in the streets when they heard of Katrina.
    They said their GOD caused massive destructive "hurricanes" to kill the hated Infedels.
    Google it, you will see their reaction to Katrina and 9/11.
  14. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    #37 Jersey

    I love these people who come to this country and than proceed to down it while have nothing but praise for their "homeland", I never understood this if your homeland is so great why did you leave it? Or why not go back? No it is your f-n Muslim government who is 100% to blame in the strained relations. I hope one day the Kurds repay you for your ignorance towards what happened to them and the beginning of the Iraq war.
  15. Turk

    Turk Rookie

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    Maybe it's your ADD or the pure hatred that has blinded you but let me give you a quote from what I wrote earlier:

    "Sam Weems, a retired Arkansas judge, writes in his book about September 11. He happened to be writing a book at the time and was in Turkey, doing research. He writes about how people were openly weeping, how he was hugged by so many people when they learned that he was an American, how the Turkish PM was one of the first to condemn this and all acts of terrorism and offer help. Mr Weems was so touched by this that he writes about being reminded of humanity and humility by the average Turk.

    Polls at that time, around 9/11, in Turkey, were around 90% in favor of participating alongside the US in a war in Afghanistan against Bin Laden, the Taliban, Al Qaida,
    and they did, and they still are.
    Because of this participation, many acts of terrorism were committed in Turkey by Al-Qaida, with many Turkish casualties.
    Is this the picture of a religious fanatic country that hates anything non-Muslim, indiscriminately?"

    Turkish troops are in Afghanistan, now just as they were in Korea or any other coflict when their allies called upon them, is this what you mean by hatred for the US?

    I never claimed to have emigrated here to the US from Turkey or that things were heaven-like, there.

    By the way, it wasn't just with Turkey that our relationship has been strained because of this war. But, that must be their fault, too.

    Did you really read anything that I wrote?

    I spent time and energy trying to point out that this Turkish movie has nothing to do with radical Islam or hatred towards any other religion, and all you can come back with is "go back to where you came from" ?

    Turk
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2006
  16. Turk

    Turk Rookie

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  17. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    PFIEL, are you Kurdish? It's great you're taking up their cause. That's mighty liberal of you. There's hope for you yet. But, Turk is right, let's not encourage terrorism by the Kurds.
  18. Turk

    Turk Rookie

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    It wasn't meant to be a joke?
    So, "A ferry sank somewhere "over there" hundreds of muslim lives were lost, Nancy Pelosi has been in her home for two days trying to figure out a way to Blame Bush for it." is a serious comment?
    And you know for a fact that those who celebrated 9/11 are the same exact people that are now weeping?
    Where did you find that out or is it that you view them as all being the same?

    Turk
  19. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    I'll ask her when my hair gets too long.
  20. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    Turk...these are the close minded American Taliban you are dealing with. There is no hope to relate to them just as there is no hope to relate to the extreme Islamic fundamentalists. They are one in the same- closed to the world's diversity, shut out into their own little world of hate and intolerance. This mentality gave rise to Hitler and Bin Laden.

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