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Another terrible league-wide rule is passed


They'd likely kill a lot more people in the tightly-packed crowds bottled up with no place to get away at the checkpoints than they would in the stadium itself.

It's all a matter of where we draw the line. If you follow that logic, we shouldn't get in a line for a bus or train or Apple store. There is no "right" or "ideal" place to do this.

It all comes down to how much the league and owners are willing to invest in game day security; trained security personnel (ideally off-duty big city police officers) are focused not just on the bag they are inspecting, but on the people lining up to be inspected.
 
Ridiculous. They already inspect bags going in, why can't they just continue doing that?

That's a fair point. I'm cynical enough to think that the answer is that the owners know that they aren't doing an adequate job with the current level of security but are unwilling to invest in the number and quality of staff who would be able to increase the security profile.

The tragedy at the Marathon reminded the league that sporting events are high profile, attract a lot of people and are now in the cross hairs of the whackadoodles who want to hurt us.
 
I got beaten by a woman with a small handbag. But that was only after trying to follow her into the bathroom. :rocker:

look on the bright side. getting "beaten...[with] a small handbag" is probably better than getting "arrested," which was another possible outcome under the circumstances...or getting "shot" if you picked the wrong place and the wrong woman with the wrong boyfriend nearby... :)
 
This is not as silly as you think. The past couple of years, I have seen a lot of backpacks inside Gillette Stadium. As you should recall, two brothers on
Patriots' Day looked very innocent walking along Boylston Street in Boston
with their backpacks.

that's the thousand pound canary in the corner of this room...er, thread...
 
Yes, you can see that while I am watching the OL vs DL and Brady.

NO! You simply cannot see the whole field at once on television! This is nuts.

Its shown on TV. You cannot see beyond the LBs but only the Safeties are playing that deep.
This indicates more of what you don't know. You can't see all the corner/slot corner/safety and linebacker motion pre-snap on television, and only some of the receiver pre-snap motion.

You can tell zone if the DB switches off and the line play is shown on TV. They are shown on TV with replay. Sometimes the replay is run a few times if its a questionable call.

More nonsense. You can't see this stuff on television real-time because the camera is focused on the quarterback. All you see is guys run off the screen. You NEVER see line play after the ball leaves the quarterback's hand -- the camera follows the ball.

You can see most subsitutions during the play.
How, when people are moving? You see substitutions live with people moving in and out of the huddle on both sides of the ball and know where they're lining up, which you miss on TV.

Commercials give a chance to use the restroom and get another beer.
Now the truth comes out why you prefer games on TV. ;)

Injured players are shown getting treatment on the sidelines or leaving the field. Reports are up to the minute on who is out for any extended time from sideline reporters.
Not to the extent you see live. They can't report on everything you can see at the game as it's happening.

Did you see the blowout that Brady had with Obrien? Any kind of drama or dust up is always shown on TV. If you think that the NFL isnt showing that stuff youre wrong.
Television shows some of those things but only a fraction of what you can see live.

Its on TV usually under 10 seconds.
They are announced here before every game.
Not always, and it helps to see the clock from the time it starts, which you don't get on television.

Ive seen every kind of Jet flyover and Im not watching for the cheerleaders or Pat The Patriot mascot.
Yeah, seen 'em once, seen 'em all. :rolleyes:


I can log on to this site and NFL.COM during the game for real time stats.
Doesn't that interfere with the limited view of the action you get on TV?


If every seat was at the 50 yard line and 20 rows from the field that would be one thing, but theyre not. Ive gone to road games and had to settle for lousy seats and could not see all the things you have listed.

Well, first you need to know what to watch for. If all you do watching live is follow the football -- which is pretty much all that television allows you to do -- then your preference is understandable.
 
I will say this. Anyone who has not seen the Pats cheerleaders in person dressed for the Halloween game is missing a lot. Hetero male & lesbian Pats fans will agree here.
 
that's the thousand pound canary in the corner of this room...er, thread...

The thousand pound canary is that we should meekly allow more encroachments because someone who shouldn't be in the country might bring pressure cookers into Gillette stadium and the security staff might miss those pressure cookers when they inspect bags?

That's quite a theory.
 
The thousand pound canary is that we should meekly allow more encroachments because someone who shouldn't be in the country might bring pressure cookers into Gillette stadium and the security staff might miss those pressure cookers when they inspect bags?

That's quite a theory.

Yes. We do have to give up a few of our liberties in the name of a greater societal good.

Yes, it is reasonable to debate where the line should be drawn in that regard.

Yes, I do think that drawing the line at high profile sporting events is legitimate, especially in the Boston area.

Yes, people might bring IED's into Gillette or any high profile venue.

Yes, unless the security staff is well-trained, diligent and plentiful they are more likely to miss such devices.

Yes, this is an admission that the NFL has determined that the current security arrangements are inadequate to detect such devices.

Yes, there are professionals who are in a position to make that judgment.

Yes, as a member of the public, I am willing to accept their judgment in this case.

Yes, this appears to be an attempt to increase the likelihood that the existing security staff will detect a threat.

With which of the above do you take exception?

My view, stated several times in this thread, is that the measures could be less draconian if the league and owners were willing to invest more in gameday security. I suspect that the Kraft's, Mara's and Lurie's in the league would be willing to do so, but not so much the cash-strapped owners of marginal franchises, who are unlikely to go along with the additional expense.
 
Yes. We do have to give up a few of our liberties in the name of a greater societal good.

Yes, it is reasonable to debate where the line should be drawn in that regard.

Yes, I do think that drawing the line at high profile sporting events is legitimate, especially in the Boston area.

Yes, people might bring IED's into Gillette or any high profile venue.

Yes, unless the security staff is well-trained, diligent and plentiful they are more likely to miss such devices.

Yes, this is an admission that the NFL has determined that the current security arrangements are inadequate to detect such devices.

Yes, there are professionals who are in a position to make that judgment.

Yes, as a member of the public, I am willing to accept their judgment in this case.


Yes, this appears to be an attempt to increase the likelihood that the existing security staff will detect a threat.

With which of the above do you take exception?

I take issue with the bolded statements.
 
The thousand pound canary is that we should meekly allow more encroachments because someone who shouldn't be in the country might bring pressure cookers into Gillette stadium and the security staff might miss those pressure cookers when they inspect bags?

That's quite a theory.

I'm not understanding how the venue that sells you a ticket and invokes rules for the use of that ticket is an encroachment on anyone's rights.
If I invite someone to my home, but want them to wear a mask so they don't spread germs I am not encroaching on their rights, I am stipulating what is allowed.
 
Yes. We do have to give up a few of our liberties in the name of a greater societal good.

Yes, it is reasonable to debate where the line should be drawn in that regard.

Yes, I do think that drawing the line at high profile sporting events is legitimate, especially in the Boston area.

Yes, people might bring IED's into Gillette or any high profile venue.

Yes, unless the security staff is well-trained, diligent and plentiful they are more likely to miss such devices.

Yes, this is an admission that the NFL has determined that the current security arrangements are inadequate to detect such devices.

Yes, there are professionals who are in a position to make that judgment.

Yes, as a member of the public, I am willing to accept their judgment in this case.

Yes, this appears to be an attempt to increase the likelihood that the existing security staff will detect a threat.

With which of the above do you take exception?

My view, stated several times in this thread, is that the measures could be less draconian if the league and owners were willing to invest more in gameday security. I suspect that the Kraft's, Mara's and Lurie's in the league would be willing to do so, but not so much the cash-strapped owners of marginal franchises, who are unlikely to go along with the additional expense.

Why are we discussing liberties? Liberties are rights that you have that someone or entity tries to take away from you, such as the ability to pursue your life without unreasonable interference.

This is an organization that puts on an event and sells tickets to it. No one has a right to attend in any fashion they chose. I am sure with your season ticket application you could say that you disagree with this policy, would like to buy tickets but do not accept this condition. I'm sure they would sell those tickets to someone else. The right lies with the owner of the venue/event to set whatever conditions they wish, and hope that enough people will purchase those tickets despite the condition.
 
Why are we discussing liberties? Liberties are rights that you have that someone or entity tries to take away from you, such as the ability to pursue your life without unreasonable interference.

This is an organization that puts on an event and sells tickets to it. No one has a right to attend in any fashion they chose. I am sure with your season ticket application you could say that you disagree with this policy, would like to buy tickets but do not accept this condition. I'm sure they would sell those tickets to someone else. The right lies with the owner of the venue/event to set whatever conditions they wish, and hope that enough people will purchase those tickets despite the condition.

We commonly define "liberties" in two ways, both precisely and more loosely.

In its precise usage, "liberties," as you observe, generally refer to the liberties that we have under the law; as you put it, the liberty to pursue our lives "without undue interference". On that point, your point is correct.

In its looser usage, "liberties" refer to activities that can be limited by those who are providing a service or form of access that we choose to use or pursue. E.g., I have the liberty to walk into a restaurant that is open to the public but I don't have the liberty to insist on being seated if they have a policy regarding attire or reservations to which I have not adhered. The restaurant's policies are, in that case, a limitation on my "liberty," loosely defined.

I was using the term in its second application. You might choose to use a different term for what I described in that case, but my use is correct as well.
 
Such an idiotic rule.

This rule better not be strictly adhered to at Wembley in October. Last season I went with 3 other people (uncles/cousins) and my cousin brought a bag full of sweets (chocolate, crisps, sandwiches etc) so that we could eat during the game. We were in the stadium from about 4.30pm-9.30pm. There is no way we could last that long without food. Considering they were charging £5/$8 for a beer, god knows what the price of food would be. Took us about an hour to get out the stadium and back to somewhere we could buy food.
 
Such an idiotic rule.

This rule better not be strictly adhered to at Wembley in October. Last season I went with 3 other people (uncles/cousins) and my cousin brought a bag full of sweets (chocolate, crisps, sandwiches etc) so that we could eat during the game. We were in the stadium from about 4.30pm-9.30pm. There is no way we could last that long without food. Considering they were charging £5/$8 for a beer, god knows what the price of food would be. Took us about an hour to get out the stadium and back to somewhere we could buy food.

You live in a civilized kingdom. I suspect that reason stands a better chance of prevailing.
 
I go to about 50 soccer games per year, get searched at maybe 5 percent of them. You can pretty much bring whatever you want in to the stadium, except bottles (cause you can hit people with them, apparently). If you have a bag, a steward will look at it, they don't care how much food you have, if you have a camera, you can bring in effing vuvuzellas, megaphones and drums if you wish. Maybe there is less of a threat of terrorism here, but if a bomb went off at a soccer game, nobody would blame the police or security, it would be the fault of the idiot who did it. Let's be honest, if a person wants to find a way to bomb an NFL game, they'll do it - no amount of security will stop them.

Oh, and another thing, on the rare occasion we do get searched, a huge fuss is kicked up, people go beserk. When we do get searched it is generally for smoke cannisters, flares and the incredibly annoying bangers that people are obsessed with atm.

Green Brigade Smoke Bombs / Tifo vs Hibs Scottish Cup Final 26.05.13 - YouTube

People should be able to enjoy themselves at sporting events and not be treated like criminals.
 
I've had the same experience here going to Minnesota United FC games recently at the Metro Dom... I mean Mall Of America Field. As someone who takes the metro bus to save gas (and money since using the bus to/from the game is free) I've taken a backpack with me that usually has a backup battery for my Note 2, work uniform as typically I've worked before a game, and umbrella in case it rains going to/from the bus station. Oh and one Mountain Dew Throwback stowed away in a side pocket that never once got inspected. Only the main part of the bag got looked at.
 


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