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Another Oh-oh for the NFL: Pats over injuries?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PatsFanInVa, Nov 16, 2007.

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  1. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ladies and gentlemen, I submit for your respectful consideration the possibility that the Pats' avoidance this year of the injury bug may not be coincidence.

    It happens that we're having our first relatively injury-light year in recent memory, during the first year on FieldTurf instead of mud. So far so good, and far be it from me to jinx anything.

    But what if there is a causal relationship?

    The teams from 01-04 won 3 out of 4 Super Bowls while absolutely depleted by injuries.

    Fast forward... 07 is a special year for many reasons, and we may never look upon its likes again.

    But it seems to me there is reason to believe we will see relatively healthy teams late into the season more often.

    Oh, and we're not built to be "small, fast, and swarming..." so there's another possibility shot to sh**.

    Okay, just wanted to share my latest quasitriumphalist observation before going to work and getting my ego squashed :D

    PFnV
  2. Pat the Pats Fan

    Pat the Pats Fan Rookie

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    Didn't realize we worked at the same place......
  3. xmarkd400x

    xmarkd400x Rookie

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    I don't quite get how the title matches up with the body of your post.

    The Patriots went to field turf and now have less injuries. This may or may not be a coincidence.

    How is this "oh-oh" for the NFL?
  4. Ootball

    Ootball Guest

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    "How is this "oh-oh" for the NFL?"

    Well, speaking on behalf of the NFL, I can tell you that the lack of injuries on the Patriots just makes this year more of a wash for the rest of us, since most of the other teams - already nowhere near the Pats - have been hit by the injury bug.

    We'll make sure never to punish you again. Break any rule you want, and we'll just let it slide. After all, no matter what it is, I'm sure "everybody does it."

    We don't want incur this kind of karma again. We'll be good.
  5. godef

    godef Rookie

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    Quasimodo who?
  6. CTPatsFan

    CTPatsFan Rookie

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    It is quite a coincidence, but it may not be far off. The grass field was allowed to get to that state, it could have been kept pristine if that were the desire. I'll never second guess BB on the football field but when it comes to turfgrass management...

    As a grass guy that's kind of the pisser, the Field Turf became a necessity because of the poor maintenance and grow-in practices. But everything is/was in place for a natural grass field that could have performed every bit as well as the Field Turf does. It never had a chance. Thanks to an ideal playing surface, though, the Pats seem to be reaping the benefits.

    Ironically I have the Fall '07 N.E. Sports Turf Mgr. Assoc. magazine on the top of the pile on my desk and the cover story is how the Gillette field crew laid sod over the Field Turf (because many teams refuse to play on artificial surfaces) for the early and quarter-final games of the Gold Cup back in May and June. The plan was to lay sod, use it for 2 weeks, discard it and lay more sod. Instead the field super convinced them to let him try to keep the initial install down for the full 4 weeks and did so successfully. They did the same thing Sept. 10-13 for another international match and got it all cleaned out and ready to go for the Chargers game on the 16th.

    I'm one that jokes about football being meant to be played in the mud and dirt but the fact is the field should never be allowed to get to that level.

    O.K. off my grass rant. :)
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2007
  7. Plunk It

    Plunk It Rookie

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    The "Fall '07 N.E. Sports Turf Mgr. Assoc. magazine"? Wow.
  8. CTPatsFan

    CTPatsFan Rookie

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    Exciting stuff! :)
  9. Lloyd_Christmas

    Lloyd_Christmas I can delete my own crap! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Being a computer guy by trade, I was certain we had the monopoly on nerds. Apparently a few escaped to other trades.
  10. JJDChE

    JJDChE Rookie

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    Isn't this the 2nd year with the FieldTurf?
  11. CTPatsFan

    CTPatsFan Rookie

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    They installed it last year prior the Chicago game.
  12. CTPatsFan

    CTPatsFan Rookie

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    Dirt nerds. :)
  13. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You know that Hunch back dude. :D
  14. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I've wondered the same thing. What accounts for the low incidence of injuries this year? Luck? Your insight very well could be the answer,its the only difference from past years. When it was installed the ceo of the company said that there was a lower incidence of lower body injuries which is what plauged the Pats for many years. So far so good.
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2007
  15. Bostonian1962

    Bostonian1962 Rookie

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    So the Patriots were much more injured when they were on grass?

    Isn't that just another thing to teach the kids about the importance of saying no to drugs?

    Nuff said.
  16. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Grass no, mud yes. :D
  17. TomBrady'sGoat

    TomBrady'sGoat Rookie

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    Haven't they been practicing on FieldTurf for years?

    The change you've mentioned only affects every other game. They haven't been getting hurt as much during away games and practice also, which are not accounted for by the new FieldTurf at home.

    Is there less contact in practice? Are they just lucky? Those both seem like possibilities.
  18. psychoPat

    psychoPat Role Player PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Regress To The Mean


    How about ? .... Regressing To The Mean.

    (Would explain the Colts also.)
  19. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I always thought the high incidence of injuries was due to the previous extended season, and did not have as much to do with field conditions. These guys who play all 19 games bodies do not have sufficient time to recover, and take a beating for 3 or 4 additional games.. have thought this for a long time now.
  20. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    Re: Regress To The Mean

    But not penalties when playing the Colts.......just the opposite......
  21. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Food for thought: between their last Super Bowl victory and the bye week, the Patriots have played 46 regular-season and post-season games.
  22. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Well, I think if someone wants to do some research, and it isn't gonna be me, the next step is to figure out where (at home or away, and if away on what kind of surface) the Pats injuries from the past couple of years have occured.

    Interesting how the Colts have a ton of injuries this year, though.
  23. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    I guess some people get all the breaks, pun intended.
  24. CTPatsFan

    CTPatsFan Rookie

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    Small felines.
  25. nashvillepatsfan

    nashvillepatsfan Rookie

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    ummmm, can we stop talking about injuries...i dont want to jinx anything:eek:
  26. alamo

    alamo praedica numerum! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We're barely more than halfway through the season, it's too early to congratulate ourselves on injuries. We will get hit, it's almost inevitable. And for all the injuries during the SB seasons none were to our most important players, i.e. no Freeney-type injuries.

    And don't forget, the type of injury that puts a player out a few games but allows him back for the playoffs has in the past been GOOD for us... the experience the replacements get is invaluable. This is the main reason Indy is still to be feared. It's a long season.
  27. ligermark

    ligermark Rookie

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    Wrong. The 2001 team was probably the healthiest team you'll ever see. The Pats haven't had a real healthy year since, though 2006 wasn't that bad, aside from the huge loss of Harrison. This team is really due for a healthy year and I hope it continues.
  28. shakadave

    shakadave Rookie

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    Good thoughts above. I have one more to contribute, that I've been wondering about for weeks....

    You know when you're a great RB like Sanders or Payton, you rarely get hit hard because the defenders have to be so worried about missing the tackle? Could our increased talent on offense be sort of accomplishing that? Moss & Co. have defenses so quaking that the last thing on their minds is teeing off on us.

    Actually here's a second thought. Some coach I recently read quoted (who coached offense at BYU, was it?) said that O-linemen get injured less pass blocking than run blocking, or at least get worn down less. Are we passing more this year?

    A lot of the other reasons above sound good, too.
  29. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Lots of reasons, but I think I like the mud/turf difference regardless. It would be interesting to go injury-by-injury over the last few years to find out what we can... just like Pujo, I'm not going to be the one.

    We have a wonderful discussion here brewing (it's on other threads as well,) regarding "regressing to the mean." The idea is that everything evens out. This is a very salient explanation in the absence of causality. I don't think either the presence or absence of causality is proven... we'd have to look at injuries to say that. If our injury rash from 02 onward was on OTHER PEOPLE'S fields, well, we'd be looking at a secondary effect at best (i.e., if something about the mud-to-a-real-field shift was responsible.)

    I distrust arguments about teams being "due" for anything, the basic "regression to the mean" equivalent. Yeah, Brady was "due" for a 50 touchdown season, since he hadn't had one before. But I think the presence of Moss, Stallworth, and Welker also influenced the possibility of such an outcome.

    Similarly, we have a very tempting, but possibly spurious connection to pursue, i.e., the possibility that the change in turf has been a godsend. We also have several other possibilities mentioned above.

    Maybe one or another of us will be able to turn up answers(home vs. away injuries, practice injuries, etc.)

    But I know one thing: That Marquis Hill thing? Nothing to do with turf.

    I am so very, very sorry.

    PFnV
  30. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    From what I remember we've had a great deal of injuries at Hines field. The turf is lose, a lot of bad footing issues there since it was built. It has been commented on several times by those calling the games.
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