Welcome to PatsFans.com

another obama failure

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by IllegalContact, Oct 16, 2012.

  1. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    12,916
    Likes Received:
    316
    Ratings:
    +1,026 / 30 / -34

  2. Drewski

    Drewski In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    4,276
    Likes Received:
    131
    Ratings:
    +362 / 0 / -1

    No Jersey Selected

    While I will agree with you that this seems to be a running joke of sorts, my questions or observations are this:

    1. Who in the government is on the decision panel for granting these loans/grants? That person(s) seemingly is/are not very good at their job(s).

    2. Do we, as a people truly think that electric cars are the future? I personally don't think they are, simply for the fact that in most cases, you still need a fossil fuel to produce the energy. While alternative energy is a plus, and something we should invest in, from a practical purpose, you are simply moving the reliance on fossil fuel upstream (from the substance the engine runs on, to the substance which is consumed to produce the energy for the engine). Fossil fuels, in most cases, are still an input in that process (electric cars)

    My opinion is Hydrogen is the automobile fuel of the of the future (but who am I?).

    3. I hate any level of government waste, and honestly is the reason I view so many programs with distrust, because waste is almost accepted and built into them. But all of these programs/loans/grants which have failed under Obama are a drop in the bucket $$ wise when compared to the costs of our boondoggles in Iraq/Afghanistan.

    I'm not attempting to go OT with #3, just simply stating that whatever these electric car/solar panel etc loans have wasted taxpayer $$ wise ($1B?) wouldn't hurt so bad if we hadn't spent $1.3T(?) in our "Adventures in Nation Building".

    Just my 3 cents.
     
  3. Patradomous

    Patradomous In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,516
    Likes Received:
    102
    Ratings:
    +383 / 67 / -92

    #87 Jersey

    They didn't build that!

    No they didn't. After 250 billion of wasted tax payer money down the rat hole, not one battery was made.

    This from an administration that goes around demanding more tax money from people. Why? For what? To burn like paper that our currency already is?
     
  4. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    39,692
    Likes Received:
    761
    Ratings:
    +2,016 / 42 / -31

    #24 Jersey

    Business startups and financing is best handled by investors / Wall Street who are better equipped to study the business models and proceed accordingly after they access the risk involved. Government has no place in any of this outside of tax breaks and incentives which is money they would not have received anyways were the business not to exist.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  5. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    25,623
    Likes Received:
    173
    Ratings:
    +469 / 12 / -14

    Political donors/bundlers get the $$$ for these boondoggles. If the company does work out, the investors get $$$$ and the taxpayer breaks even minus the interest we pay the Chicoms for the money we borrow to give to the donors, if the company fails, the taxpayer get to pay interest to the Chicoms, newer get anything back from the failed firm, the firm execs get golden parachutes and the pols get more donations.
     
  6. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    43,268
    Likes Received:
    330
    Ratings:
    +829 / 27 / -33

    How many times does the military get startup money for a project, then has cost overruns, fraud and the like only to have the product not bought by the Government???..

    Like it or not this is what the government does, it speculates on systems they think they need, then fund it and sometimes companies fail...

    China is a leader in solar panels, and a leading factor in their success are government subsidies..

    The US has subsidized R&D for Nuclear power, Nuclear Power Plan Development and fossil fuel power development.. it is what we do. For some reason the right does not like the idea of supporting alternative energy sources..
     
  7. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    39,692
    Likes Received:
    761
    Ratings:
    +2,016 / 42 / -31

    #24 Jersey

    I don't think that is a good comparison ... one is making goods for the public and one is making a product for one buyer - more if the state department allows it in the future. I don't think our government has any business seeding money for companies making public goods. That is not how our system was designed. If an idea is a good one ... the Wall Street people will be all over it. If the idea is risky - they won't be and Uncle Same should not be either.
     
  8. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    43,268
    Likes Received:
    330
    Ratings:
    +829 / 27 / -33

    Is this better...

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/20/2903965/loan-guarantees-for-clean-energy.html

     
  9. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    39,692
    Likes Received:
    761
    Ratings:
    +2,016 / 42 / -31

    #24 Jersey


    That is great ... but I still don't believe government should be involved in business ... helping some companies and not others ... politics getting involved on the financial end of business is not how our economy is designed. Perhaps Obama should help fund the NHL ... I miss my Bruins.
     
  10. khayos

    khayos In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Messages:
    3,673
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

  11. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    39,692
    Likes Received:
    761
    Ratings:
    +2,016 / 42 / -31

    #24 Jersey

  12. khayos

    khayos In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Messages:
    3,673
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Well its obviously a puff article. The funny thing to me is how it almost contradicts itself... government manages loan guarantees of $1.1trillion. 1.4% are "losers" which is nigh improbable to me considering fail rates of businesses but that's 15.4b. 87% are "low risk" meaning 11.6% are risky... only $127.6 billion.

    Ya know, but we'll make $8b in interest... funny it doesn't say if that's for one year or for the life of the loans... because that 1.4% just tanks it right there.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  13. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    43,268
    Likes Received:
    330
    Ratings:
    +829 / 27 / -33

    Minimize it if you will, but the reason why China has soared ahead in this area of their economy is they heavily subsidize this industry... they are not supposed to be exporting subsidized panels, however they have.

    In Europe they dumped a lot of solar panels below their cost, and have impacted several manufacturers there..

    China subsidized solar panels, US finds. Are tariffs the right response? - CSMonitor.com

     
  14. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    25,623
    Likes Received:
    173
    Ratings:
    +469 / 12 / -14



    Of course the subsidized Chicom solar companies are losing $$$ hand over fist also.

    What's Going Wrong With China's Solar Industry? : NPR


    Even NPR has observed the mess in China. Yet you think this is something to emulate?

    It is especially humorous given your excoriating Shilling for getting government loans. Guess it is a matter of whose ox is getting gored.
     
  15. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    39,692
    Likes Received:
    761
    Ratings:
    +2,016 / 42 / -31

    #24 Jersey

    A great topic for the election ... now we aren't China with their economic system but this topic is great for the discussion of tax breaks. Myself I think their should be no as in zero corporate tax in this country. I think the workers should burden the tax bill. It's the best way under our system for us to compete with countries like China.
     
  16. Patradomous

    Patradomous In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,516
    Likes Received:
    102
    Ratings:
    +383 / 67 / -92

    #87 Jersey

    I know I miss the Bruins. Nothing like watching the B's with a hot bowl of popcorn on a chilly night.
     
  17. Drewski

    Drewski In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    4,276
    Likes Received:
    131
    Ratings:
    +362 / 0 / -1

    No Jersey Selected

    OT: CBA agreement will be made in the next 10 days. Games to start Nov. 2nd.

    B's are back baby!
     
  18. Titus Pullo

    Titus Pullo Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    Messages:
    2,612
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -1

    Glass Steagal just called, laughing at your premise above.

    You just confirmed the stereotype that economists keep their faux science difficult to comprehend on purpose.

    Oh, cool. The long-debunked meme that puts cart before horse.

    Did you know your team's ultimate hero, Adam Smith, once said this:

    "People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices."​


    Probably not. ... Smith didn't exactly think government was dangerous. He thought the danger was big capitalists tricking government into doing them favors.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  19. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    39,692
    Likes Received:
    761
    Ratings:
    +2,016 / 42 / -31

    #24 Jersey

    I think you have more of a problem with the system than what I said. Wall Street and the Fed serve to keep liquidity in the market. My statement reflects our system.

    What do you wish our system should be and/or modified to slightly be? How do we keep business here in the USA? BTW ... Solyndra didn't do what Smith refers to? I think they did under the guise of donations.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  20. RI Patriots fan

    RI Patriots fan In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    4,161
    Likes Received:
    117
    Ratings:
    +314 / 14 / -26

    Another Obama Government-funded Bankruptcy

    A123 Systems, which had received a $249 million grant from the U.S. government, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on Tuesday, giving Republicans fresh ammunition to attack the Obama administration's subsidies for green energy.

    The filing came after the lithium-ion battery maker's $465 million rescue deal with Chinese auto parts supplier Wanxiang Group collapsed, hobbled by "unanticipated and significant challenges," A123 said on its website.


    Government-funded battery maker files for bankruptcy - Bottom Line


    Another one bites the dust.........
     

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>