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Andre Tippett-HOF?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by 363839, Aug 4, 2006.

  1. 363839

    363839 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I am surprised that there has been no thread started for support of Andre to enter the HOF.
    The guy was second to only Lawrence Taylor and I'm here watching Harry Carson do his acceptance speech on NFL network.
    Harry was better than Andre???
    No argument from me about Lawrence over Andre but Harry Carson.
    Was Carson that good.
  2. drew4008

    drew4008 Rookie

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    The PFW guys already talked about this. He definitely was a great player and a Pat legend, but he doesn't belong in the Hall, which is for the elite of the elite.
  3. 363839

    363839 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And Harry Carson does?
  4. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale Rookie

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    Tippett does not belong in the HOF. Tippett thrived early in his career when the standard M.O. of picking up blitzing OLBs was to use a RB. After the '85 Bears made blitzing all the rage, teams started maturing their pass-blocking schemes. Gone were the days of RBs left alone to pick up an OLB and in came the days of tackles sliding outside. Once that started happening, Tippett pretty much became just another good OLB. Taylor, meanwhile, continued to dominate even when taking on a tackle.

    On a related note, an offense like the '04 Pats would have eaten Buddy Ryan's 46 D alive, even those '85 Bears. Those Bears CBs were average at best.
  5. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    I'm sorry the young guys at PFW most of whom never saw him play and weren't Pats fans in their youth, should have no qualified opinion.

    Andre made many Probowls, and his 100 sacks is in the top handful for LBs. He suffered because LT played in NYC, the media capital, and was a pure
    Sh!t, so his notoriety got him in to the media too. As the Hollywierdos say "I don't care what you write just spell my name right".

    As far as NYC is concerned, study the record of a NY QB whose completion rate was 50.2% and threw more INTs than TDs over his career. His total passing yardage is not in the top 30, yet he sits in the HOF.

    Why? Because he played in NYC and made a loudmouth boast once. That off the field comment makes him a HOF QB?

    Get Real.

    Andre Tippet belongs in the Hall of Fame!
  6. 363839

    363839 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My argument is not against LT.
    How did Harry Carson fair under that same scenario?
    I don't know about Andre not being able to handle a pulling? tackle.
    Andre only played a total of 7 or 8 years. I think he may have had a career ending injury.
  7. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    He saved the AFL teams by showing they were on par with the NFL and is one of the big reasons you're sitting here discussing the New England Patriots today (along with owners like Ralph Wilson). I think that gives Broadway Joe the benefit of the doubt. The historical significance of that "loudmouth boast" cannot be downplayed in leading up to today's NFL.
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2006
  8. 363839

    363839 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thank you, AZ. We are in 100% agreement. :)
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2005
  9. 363839

    363839 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I liked your Joe Namath reference though.
    Though, I agree with his HOF inclusion.
  10. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale Rookie

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    I used LT because LT is in the HOF and both played OLB in the exact same era. Carson was an ILB so it's tough to compare him to Tippett. It should be noted that those Giants run defenses with Carson manning the middle were awesome. BTW, Tippett played 11 years. I distinctly remember him having trouble against tackles...I used to b1tch about it in the late '80s.
  11. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Trying not to be a 'homer' here, but objectively speaking Tip does deserve to be in the HOF.

    In his prime, he was second only to LT. The only thing that would keep him out is that his last 3 years were injury years.

    By the way. Does anyone remember that disaster of a preseason game againts the Eagles, I believe, when we lost 3 or 4 defensive starters for the year? Was Tip one of those?
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2006
  12. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale Rookie

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    I believe that was vs. Green Bay in the '89 preseason. Yes, Tippett was one of those, but I think he came back very late in the year.
  13. 363839

    363839 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You're right is was 11 years. (I don't know what I was looking at.)
    http://originwww.patriots.com/history/index.cfm?ac=HallofFameplayer&bio=2174

    You may be right about the NFL philosophy change may have made him a little less effective. Still, he has many on-field accomplisments and supporting stats, a few pro bowl appearances.
    Those guys shouldn't be so quickly dismissive.
  14. Julius

    Julius Rookie

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    In that Green bay game we lost Tippet Garin Veris, and Ronnie Lipett I believe.
  15. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    Baaah! Pure baloney!! Big Apple BS! The merger happened three years before in 1995-6. The monies being paid for raw rookies, got the owners to agree a long time before. If the Jets had not won that year, the Chiefs would have destroyed the Vikes the following year which, they did; and the Raiders would have done so as well, as they had done the next year afterwards too.

    ( NYC publicity driven just like overated LT)

    Namath un HOF stats:
    3762 ATT 1886 Comp 50.1% 27,663 yds 173 TDs 4.59% 220 INTs 5.84%

    Heres another player's stats:
    3593 ATT 1879 Comp 52.3% 26,886 yds 182 TDs 5.05% 208 INTs 5.77%

    This guy EXCEEDS every stat except the number of attempts by 160 attempts and completions but by only six or so. He has a better completion percentage. He threw more TDs for a higher percentage of TDs. He threw fewer INTs, for a lower percentage of INTs.

    Yet this QB has never been mentioned for a Hall of Fall candidate and never will, nor should he; although he got his team to a SuperBowl once, just like Namath.

    Question for the audience... Whose stats are these?
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2006
  16. PYPER

    PYPER Rookie

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    I think Andre belongs.

    Carson also belongs. He should have gotten in a long time ago.

    Much of LT's success can actually be attributed to Carson. Carson was an All-Pro before LT even got there. The reason LT was able to make so many plays was because he often gambled and "sold-out" anticipating the offensive play. The reason he rarely got burnt is b/c Carson was always there to cover his back. The two of them communicated with one another and Carson always took care of the "little" things.

    It's not a popular opinion b/c of the way LT has been hyped up in his career but Andre was every bit as good as him. Andre was actually more rounded. LT was more flashy.

    The big question I have is why isn't Stanley Morgan in the the team's ring of honor or hall of fame. Whatever they call it. His yardage totals almost make him HoF worthy and yet he's not even recognized by his own team.

    Kraft needs to fix that.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2005
  17. 363839

    363839 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm gonna take a stab and say... Drew Bledsoe?
  18. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    Mr. Grogan
  19. 363839

    363839 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/TippAn00.htm
    This is interesting. Five straight pro bowls up to 88 as previous posters have indicated he was injured in 89. Never made another pro bowl appearance.
    Hmmm.
    Still a great run for those 5 years.
    I don't know if he was the same after that injury.

    Oh! I just heard Leslie Vissar is going to the Hall of Fame, though.

    I wonder how she handled the tackles, huh.
  20. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    Damn Right! And has ANYONE EVER suggested that Grogs should be a candidate for the Hall of Fame? Of course not.

    Namath got in with inferior stats because he played in NYC. LT was a free lancing OLB who could cheat because Harry Carson protected him when he screwed up and his gambles backfired.

    LT was a drunken, doper, and a mess as a man; hardly a model of a Pro Football Hero for the kids to emulate.
  21. Murphys95

    Murphys95 Rookie

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    I tend to agree. Perspectives are different when the Patriots are your job and not your passion. On the same note, I'm a bit of homer when it comes to the Pats. If I were to make a case for New England players making the hall, number 1 would be Gino, number 2 would be Stanley, and number 3 would be Tippett (just my 3 cents)
  22. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We discussed that a few times here...always the conclusion was a draw.
    Tippet played on alot of bad teams for sure. But most of all, the Patriots never had the dominating line that we have now. We were always LB strong...very strong. Except for the marginal Ken Simms...we never even had 1st round talent there.

    If Tippet could add the fact that he played behind very average lines I say for sure he would be there. He was as quick and intelligent as most of the guys in the HOF.

    LT had nothing on Tippet either IMO. LT had the luxury of rushing the passer alot. Tippet...due to his intelligence and versatility dropped back into coverage alot.

    How about if Tippet could have played a bunch of years with Bruschi...that would have been fun to watch. Nelly was a great ILB but he was not the athlete Bruschi is. Tippet and Bruschi would have redefined LB as an art form for sure...a black belt in karate and the high flying Bruschi...WOW...give anything to see that.
  23. scott99

    scott99 Rookie

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    Tippett belongs in there, plain and simple. He played on some awful teams, and the other teams keyed on him EVERY game (his whole career) !! There is no reason for him not being there. He's probably the ONLY retired player in the top 20 sack list not in the Hall. He is possibly the greatest Pats defender ever. Call me a homer, but this is ridiculous.
  24. godef

    godef Rookie

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    I think it was '88... I decided last minute to go to that game from where I lived in Maynard just 1 year... that would have been 1988. Don't remember who was injured though, just that we had a lot and it pretty much set the tone for the few seasons.
  25. PYPER

    PYPER Rookie

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    Nope, it was definitely 1989. It was the same game we lost Veris and Lippette.

    We went 9-7 in 1988. The game that started our decline to laughing stock status was the green bay preseason game in 1989. We ended up 5-11 that year.
  26. Sundayjack

    Sundayjack Rookie

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    If Andre Tippett played on teams with more success, then, yes, he would and should be in the Hall of Fame. Harry Carson, for his part, was a nine-time ProBowl player on a team that did win a Superbowl. That seems to be enough to get a guy into Canton these days.

    I won't even justify the anti-Namath comments. Statistics aside, Superbowl III had more to do with the AFL-NFL merger - and the NFL we know today - than any other single factor. Some inductees ought not be graded on statistics alone.

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