Analyzing the O-Line's problems

[stinkypete]

Everbody's forgetting a key point here, we currently have no blocking TE. Over the past several years, we've had Graham helping out Light on the left side. With Kyle Brady not playing, we lack that extra dimension. Clearly the overall line play is going to suffer when you eliminate an elite blocking TE.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I have only seen a few replays, but I did see the presure the D was getting.

This actually dates back to last season in my opinion.

Having no deep WR threat the gameplan against the Patriots was simple last year:

Stack the line, put pressure on Brady and doubleteam Watson and Caldwell.

Defenses could bring CBs and Safeties up without fear of being burned.

Given the fact that Brady and his WRs are not yet ready for prime time, that was the defensive scheme you saw on Friday, and indeed it worked.

Having Moss and Stallworth out there catching a few deep passes is going to end that type of "stack the line" pressure real quick... and its going to open things up for the running game too - which if you noticed we haven't exactly been too worried about putting our 1st team RB out there just yet.

So I wouldn't worry too much.

 

[psychoPat]

http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/bsflag.gif

I said the "reason" was Stallworth, I never said he was at fault.
A word game ... a distinction without a difference.
Is this the strongest rebuttal to my substantive criticisms (in this thread and another) of the O-line's latest performance?


There is no 3 QB stuff, I addressed the time "The Franchise" was in the game, the other guys have yet to be evaluated.
I think it is clear that i wasn't addressing THE QUARTERBACKS, as such.
I was bemoaning the O-line ... and how, from top to bottom, from Light and Mankins down to Turnstyle Mruc,
the O-line repeatedly failed to let the QB even plant his feet -
no matter which QB, which O-linemen, or which Titan defenders were in there at the time.
We don't need freeze-frames to know this. We watched, horrified, in real time.
Real SHORT time.


Now, tell me what standard you wish to apply: A veteran QB drops back in the pocket, holds the ball too long looking for a long ball opening and gets creamed by a D-linemen as he throws, resulting in an interception. Do we (A) scream at the O-line or (B) call him a statue and trade him to Buffalo?
If it's "A" we'd better hope Cassel or Gutierrez is the next Tom Brady.

The QB's job is to scan the defense, find an open man, and deliver the ball.
Dumping off to a back - as you recommended earlier - is for when all else fails. You know even better than i that
dumping off is not a first, or even second, read.
Don't tell me ... or the many other posters who seem to have seen the same game i did
(but not the one that Box and mgteich apparently saw) ...
don't try to persuade us that we were watching ANY of our QBs standing back there
chewing gum, patting the ball, looking left looking right looking left again ... and ONLY THEN got blasted.
#12, #16, and what is Gut #7? rarely had enough time to throw. When they'd finish their drop
they had to begin immediately to duck and dodge.
They weren't wasting time back there inside an impregnable pocket!

You've summed my position up well:
much more of that kind of O-line malfeasance
and one of the Matts will be forced to try to become the next Tom Brady.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I said the "reason" was Stallworth, I never said he was at fault.
A word game ... a distinction without a difference.
Is this the strongest rebuttal to my substantive criticisms (in this thread and another) of the O-line's latest performance?

Then we'll play another word game, if Tommy is holding the ball for 4 counts he's pushing the limit of his pocket security. Factor in the data that he is getting hit on a 4 count "after" a noticable breakdown, then you have to say the line wasn't doing badly at all - well, I have to say, we are indeed viewing different games it appears.


There is no 3 QB stuff, I addressed the time "The Franchise" was in the game, the other guys have yet to be evaluated.
I think it is clear that i wasn't addressing THE QUARTERBACKS, as such.
I was bemoaning the O-line ... and how, from top to bottom, from Light and Mankins down to Turnstyle Mruc,
the O-line repeatedly failed to let the QB even plant his feet -
no matter which QB, which O-linemen, or which Titan defenders were in there at the time.
We don't need freeze-frames to know this. We watched, horrified, in real time.
Real SHORT time.

**sigh** Such is life, one day your acuity is lauded and the next you're efforts to see and understand all that the camera captures are washed away in an emotional tide of Groucho Marx one liners.

Now, tell me what standard you wish to apply: A veteran QB drops back in the pocket, holds the ball too long looking for a long ball opening and gets creamed by a D-linemen as he throws, resulting in an interception. Do we (A) scream at the O-line or (B) call him a statue and trade him to Buffalo?
If it's "A" we'd better hope Cassel or Gutierrez is the next Tom Brady.

The QB's job is to scan the defense, find an open man, and deliver the ball.
Dumping off to a back - as you recommended earlier - is for when all else fails. You know even better than i that
dumping off is not a first, or even second, read.
Don't tell me ... or the many other posters who seem to have seen the same game i did
(but not the one that Box and mgteich apparently saw) ...
don't try to persuade us that we were watching ANY of our QBs standing back there
chewing gum, patting the ball, looking left looking right looking left again ... and ONLY THEN got blasted.
#12, #16, and what is Gut #7? rarely had enough time to throw. When they'd finish their drop
they had to begin immediately to duck and dodge.
They weren't wasting time back there inside an impregnable pocket!



You've summed my position up well:
much more of that kind of O-line malfeasance
and one of the Matts will be forced to try to become the next Tom Brady.

- The Quarterback's job is to lead the offense, only one aspect of his job is to throw the ball.
- It seems like just yesterday when we would snigger at the stories of coaches with stop watches yelling at Drew to let him know he had taken too long to find an open man.
- I was unaware you found dump-off passes to be unfashionable, I guess I'm just a reactionary towards these new fangled Manning-ball trends. Sad, even Manning himself found small-ball useful when the loss of one favored WR led him to develop a short, ball management game - he won something significant that way if I recall...
- Cassel got sacked once when Ben Watson lost control of his block. It seems unfair to Ben that he block a DE solo, but then he's supposed to be working to improve his blocking as his predecessor did.
- Having only watched the one Cassel series I have yet to form an opinion on the blocking, let alone that for Mr. Gutierrez. Perhaps I'll share your horror, though judging from your unwillingness to consider young Tommy's role in the trauma that savaged your poor eyes, I suspect I'll be branded a heartless cad, insensitive to the bruising of one's delicate little angel.

 

[psychoPat]

Seems to me that the opposing positions have been adequately aired.

Now ... as ever ... i respect what you see and what you think about it.
Since i find myself mistaken in life perhaps more than i happen to be right ...
it is easy for me to overlook you being wrong every so often.

Just don't do it again !

 

[PatsFan37]

Seems to me that the opposing positions have been adequately aired.

Now ... as ever ... i respect what you see and what you think about it.
Since i find myself mistaken in life perhaps more than i happen to be right ...
it is easy for me to overlook you being wrong every so often.

Just don't do it again !

PsychoPat, or blue man group , let me throw in a couple thoughts on this.

I've read all the nasty press on the OLine, and before I slo-mo'd the first half my impression was that Light was, as some other poster put it, beaten like a rented mule.

I had a difference impression after analysis, which is often the case when you're watching five or six men block four or five in three seconds.

Light struggled for a few plays, after which he was fairly solid, allowing his man to beat him over the top maybe once or twice, almost, but not quite reaching Brady. Otherwise he was successful at stopping his man or pushing him over the top. Light also had a whiff on a run block in the red zone, which is not good, but happens.

The problem was primarily with O'C and Neal, and with OLine communication. They had bad moments, some very bad, but as a whole the OLine was not the travesty that other posters and the press have been portraying.

Box's point, with which I agree, is that Brady exacerbated the problem by trying to make a play when an unblocked rusher has broken loose. He should be careful about this. Brady has a tendency in some games to try to be the hero. You may remember a Miami game with an 11 point New England lead and four minutes to go.

I don't care what kind of pressure a QB is under, throwing a duck is all on him. He can, you know, take a sack. Sacks are primarily on the oline and the receivers. Throwing into a frontside tackle like he did is at least partly his fault.

That doesn't excuse O'C for looking like he didn't belong. And I don't think the Oline was rock solid, but they were good for long stretches, with some notable lapses.

Highlight reel plays emphasize the truly egregious mistakes. But playing the same highlight twenty times doesn't make it twenty mistakes.

 

[wcda]

I think the problem is the pass plays take too long to develop. The offensive line can only hold off the defense for so long.

 

[Oswlek]

I agree with Box that there were plenty of mitigating circumstances surrounding NE's OL play. For instance, if that were a real game, I doubt that they would have run a single play other than a screen until TN proved that they could stop it. Plus, it was pretty clear that NE was working on some longer developing pass plays with Stallworth. Plus, from everything that I have read since that game, they seemed to be trying to find out what Watson had in him. In the RS that is Brady not Ben.

That said, TN absolutely did get the better of the LOS on passing plays. Whether it was stunts or just plain old rushes, they typically had a man free. Box is right that 3 seconds is a long time, but the OL did a poor job on their 1:1 assignments in spite of all the other stuff. I think that it would have looked better with real game planning, while at the same time I think they played pretty poorly, You can have it both ways.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Lots of great posts in this thread and very educational for someone like myself who doesn't know the finer points of blocking schemes and the kind of communication that is essential for their successful execution. Much insight on how wrong it can be to assign "blame" to one player or another. Thanks!

Only comment: the next time the Patriots are working stuff out on the O Line, I would feel one holy heck of a lot better if they could do it without the FRANCHISE, FUTURE HOF, TWO-TIME SB MVP QB having to stand in there like a G*##@^N punching bag until they get it right!

 

[mgteich]

Is Rivers a blocking TE? If not, we should sign one to replace him.

Everbody's forgetting a key point here, we currently have no blocking TE. Over the past several years, we've had Graham helping out Light on the left side. With Kyle Brady not playing, we lack that extra dimension. Clearly the overall line play is going to suffer when you eliminate an elite blocking TE.

 

[PatsWSB47]

I think that we may need a bit of patience regarding the analysis of the Offense, especially the O-line until we see performance over the next 2 pre-season games at the very least

even in the face of us seeing D-linemen in the face of The Franchise, I submit that observing some of the hits recently on TB can be a result of partly O-line, partly route-running and finally partly TB himself

I also submit that we are ALL waiting, nay dying, to see an offense that is not Offensive --- and are chomping at the bit to see a semblance of domination (that we may believe is lying in wait by way of the off-season, offensive player acquisitions) not witnessed in previous Patriots teams --- even in the SB winning years

we get a Kyle Brady on the field with a Maroney, a Moss, a Stallworth and a Welker and we see what we really may have or no, yes?

Waiting patiently myself. I have to admit some envy of how other offenses have looked in other pre-season games, Phily for example.