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An DE/OLB/Elephant draft discussion.

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Arizona Patsfan, Dec 29, 2005.

  1. Arizona Patsfan

    Arizona Patsfan Rookie

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    Elsewhere there was poll of preferable draftee positions.

    I said it was all wrong and OLB/DE/Elephant was the glaring need. Others took up the cry and piped up with Manny Lawson, and Kiwanuka Mathis, as proposed alternatives for the diagnosed need.

    I would appreciate a discussion by all you draftniks out there as to whom you think would most fit this need. You can go to the poll to read the specifications that I posted, so I am not looking for the unknown 215# 5'11" DE/OLB from Never-heard-of-it University. This is a premium athlete we are discussing, and I assume he is potentially already rated a first or at most a high second rounder.

    If you have scouted Manny or K and have opinions of them as well, I'd like to hear it as well.

    Let the conversation begin.
  2. JohnnyFromBurgerKing

    JohnnyFromBurgerKing Rookie

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    It must be first noted that Manny Lawson plays on the same defensive line as a STUD DE prospect named Mario Williams, projected an almost lock for a top 10 pick. Should Lawson's numbers be diminished based on the fact that he plays with such an awesome force opposite him? In my opinion, no. In other's opinions, who knows?

    Kiwi is about 6'7 and 260 - 265. Lawson weighs in at 245 and about 6'5-6'6 in height. Lawson managed about 9 1/2 sacks this year, Kiwi about the same (9). Take from those numbers what you will. Again, remember, Lawson had the luxury of a double team on Mario Williams every play. Kiwi didnt. Both have some problems shedding blockers. Kiwi struggled at times this year in the ACC shedding double teams and sometimes triple teams. Lawson, on the other hand, had the same problems, mainly due to his size.

    Lawson's got speed like you READ about. Huge speed. Unbelievable speed. Have-to-see-it-to-believe-it speed. Kiwi's got similar physical tools. Both project, at this point, to be OLB's, but Kiwi's got a better shot of making it at DE.
  3. drew4008

    drew4008 Rookie

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    As the top administrator at NFLfans and a lead draft database manager, I can give my opinion on the topic.

    Some names:

    Bobby Carpenter
    Pierre Woods
    Manny Lawson
    Elvis Dumervil
    Parys Haralson
    Kamerion Wimbley
    Oliver Hoyte
    Charles Bennett
    Mike Kudla
    Javon Nanton
    James Wyche
    Ryan Neill
    Charlton Keith
    John Syptak
    Justin Parrish
    and here's one of my sleepers: Terna Nande

    From Miami(OH)'s website on Nande:

    Rare physical specimen who possesses a bench press of 520 lbs., a squat of 620 lbs., a vertical jump of 36.5 inches and a 4.43 time in the 40-yard dash ... a two-time all-MAC honoree after earning first-team plaudits in 2004 ... enters his third season as a starter after being a contributor as a true freshman ... moves to down lineman on passing downs to provide an extra pass rusher ... on the Nagurski Trophy watch list for the nation's best defensive player ... has All-America potential ... ranked 40th on a list of the top 100 NFL Prospects for 2006 in a list compiled by USA Today.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2005
  4. JohnnyFromBurgerKing

    JohnnyFromBurgerKing Rookie

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    Wow, really, you put Oliver Hoyte in there? He's projected pretty low. Would you mean taking him in a later round?

    Elvis Dumervil! Now there's a player to consider. Plays in the Big East at Louisville, so maybe take it with a grain of salt, but he had 20 sacks this year. Yes, you read that right. 20. 6 against one team (granted it was Kentucky).
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2005
  5. drew4008

    drew4008 Rookie

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    Yes, I've put players from any round. I'm just throwing names out there. Right now Carpenter is the only player who would really be worth that 28-32 pick, and that would still be a stretch.
  6. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I'd like to see Haralson in the middle rounds. That kids going to be a player.
  7. chunkypony

    chunkypony Rookie

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    Tamba Hali (PSU) is someone I really consider in this role. Has a quick 40 time, can come around the edge with speed, and puts pressure on the QB. And has a great story; moved here from Africa, doesn't know his mother, and wants to use his money from a contract to get his mother from Africa to here; he knows what hard work is, and I think he would fit right in to our "team first" philosophy.
  8. drew4008

    drew4008 Rookie

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    Again though... he'll likely be gone before 25 as his stock is rising. Not to mention he is a pretty complete player at the 4-3 DE position.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2005
  9. Mosi Moose

    Mosi Moose Rookie

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    The reason i suggested Manny Lawson earlier is simply because he was what we were looking for, ranked around #28-#32, which is where we will pick barring a trade (which could be possible). I have not dug too deep into the draft yet, but who of the ones listed is close to the Demarcus Ware of this year's draft?
  10. drew4008

    drew4008 Rookie

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    Manny Lawson right now is closest to Ware. He's still projected as a 2nd round pick at this time, but he could shoot up like that if he runs a sub 4.6 time.
  11. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Before throwing out a list of names, most of which are garbage players, let's examine the role of the OLB in the Patriots 3-4. These players must be adept at rushing the passer, stopping the run (ie: CONTROLLING their gap assignments), and being able to drop back into coverage against basks AND tight ends.
    Now let's look at the type of players BB prefes for this role. He prefers taller players generally 6'3" or taller. He prefers they are beefy enough to take on pulling OG. 260 plus pounds. He also prefers intelligent, instinctive players that can recognize screens, draws and end arounds. And he prefers athletes that can run for this spot. McGinest is probably the prototype. Vrabel and Colvin are limited in pass coverage. TBC lacks coverage and run assignments.

    Based on this criteria, let's examine your list. Two guys could potentially fill this role, Carpenter and Wyche. I'm not high on Carpenter. He does not appear to have to instincts for the position and putting him into the 3-4 and making him maintain gap responsibility, would probably stifle his game.
    Wyche has some of the characteristics needed for this position. His game intrigues me, but I must admit, I did not see him play that much this year.
    One honorable mention is Woods of Michigan. He is the exact size, but I haven't seen him play enough to be able to project him.

    The ideal fit appears to be a smallish 4-3 DE that can be taught to cover. There are a few of those that could be found in this draft, however regardless of who they are, to play OLD in the BB system, you will need a couple of years to grasp all the assignments. For OLB, we would be much better off signing a veteran if we need immediate impact. For example if Dom Capers is let go in Houston, Peek might not fit with a 4-3 coach, with us BB could bring out a ton in a guy like that.
  12. shatch62

    shatch62 Rookie

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    Peek is a restricted free agent (3rd round pick) so the Pats could make a play for him even if he is tendered by Houston. While he is 6'3" he is only listed at 235ish which is small for the Pats
  13. NOWAKJOE

    NOWAKJOE Rookie

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    After watching the Clemson vs. Colorado game on wed.Clemsons Gaines Adams DE 6'5" 265 lbs really stood out. Looked like a young Willie Mac.quick off the ball with good instints. The downside is that he is a junior and may not declare. Some scouts feel he could be the 2nd. or 3rd. DE/OLB off the board.
    Also does anyone think that TBC will ever develop into WM role? He looked preety good in the pre-season games.
    As for a possible FA. What about John Abraham? BB talks highly about him.
  14. drew4008

    drew4008 Rookie

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    Don't know if anybody has heard much about him, but a RS Junior for Clemson, Gaines Adams, may declare for the draft.

    He's 6"5, 260, and is very athletic in the "bandit" DE role Clemson implements.

    Here's some stats on him:

    12.5 TFL, 7.5 sacks, 8 passes broken up, and 27 QB hurries!

    If he declares, would be a good pick-up late day 1, which is where he's being projected right now.
  15. drew4008

    drew4008 Rookie

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    Wow, I didn't even see that post NOWAKJONES. Looks like we're on the same page without even knowing it.
  16. Flying Fungi

    Flying Fungi Rookie

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    2 years ago I happened upon a BC game and some youngster nicknamed Kiwi was having a monster of a game--I have watched him develop into an amazing prospect--and would LOVE to see him drop to us--or even us trade up for him

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