an Asante stat that goes, but should NOT go unnoticed

[DaBruinz]

What does this mean?

You should consider running for mayor.

It means that Asante just happened to be in the right place at the right time to pick off a floater that the Defensive line forced the QB to put up. Hell, Earthwind Moreland could have made those interceptions.

 

[PonyExpress]

Asante's pass def. total is very good, especially when you consider how few pass interference penalties he drew. Ty Law's big year withe the Jets, when he had 9 or 10 int.'s, also were accompanied by 14 pass interference penalties. Only 9 were accepted, which means 5 resulted in a reception and more yds than the penalty would have garnered. Asante stayed under control for the most part.

Ty Law had 5 defensive penalties called against him totalling 53 yards in all of 2005. Ken Lucas, whose praises were sung far and wide that same season, had 6, as did Trufant and Quentin Jammer, to lead the NFL. Leigh Bodden, an underrated but excellent cb, Shawn Springs, Lito Sheppard, Fred Smoot, Marcus Trufant et. al. were penalized for more yards than Law. The Law Myth was a byproduct of souring media relations in NY. The NY media is a lie machine.

 

[Brady to Brown]

It means that Asante just happened to be in the right place at the right time to pick off a floater that the Defensive line forced the QB to put up. Hell, Earthwind Moreland could have made those interceptions.

So the pass rush may have helped Samuel? And Earthwind Moreland is as good as Samuel.

 

[PonyExpress]

While having 24 passes defensed is a good stat, it also says that teams were throwing to his side. Meaning that teams weren't afraid of him.....

Bailey this year had 20+ passes defensed, and teams rarely challenged him. Law in 2003 had 20+. McCallister had 22 this season. Not saying you're wrong in Asante's case, but PDs often indicate quality cb play.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

So the pass rush may have helped Samuel? And Earthwind Moreland is as good as Samuel.

Come on. All football skills aside it's a crime if Earthwind Moreland doesn't play, based on the name alone.

PFnV

 

[Brady to Brown]

Come on. All football skills aside it's a crime if Earthwind Moreland doesn't play, based on the name alone.

PFnV

Earth Wind and Moreland while having a nice ring, could not get 10 Ints if he knew when his reciever was getting the ball.

 

[Seneschal2]

As TG might say...

I don't think passes defensed includes int.s, does it? Source?

PFnV

It does not include interceptions. I'm not quite sure though.

Passes defended doesn't include interceptions: In 2005 Ty Law had 10 ints and 8 passes defended. If it did include interceptions, you could never have more interceptions than passes defended.

Well, my source all these years has been the official ncaa site for stats:

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2006&div=4&rpt=IA_playerpassesdefended&site=org

The stats for 3 CBs we've talked about:

Aaron Ross
Passes Broken Up - 16
Ints - 6
Total Passes Defended - 22

Daymeion Hughes
Passes Broken Up - 11
Ints - 8
Total Passes Defended - 19

Leon Hall
Passes Broken Up - 15
Ints - 3
Total Passes Defended - 18

---

Hope this helps.

 

[PonyExpress]

Re: As TG might say...

Well, my source all these years has been the official ncaa site for stats:

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2006&div=4&rpt=IA_playerpassesdefended&site=org

The stats for 3 CBs we've talked about:

Aaron Ross
Passes Broken Up - 16
Ints - 6
Total Passes Defended - 22

Daymeion Hughes
Passes Broken Up - 11
Ints - 8
Total Passes Defended - 19

Leon Hall
Passes Broken Up - 15
Ints - 3
Total Passes Defended - 18

---

Hope this helps.

Also in the NFL, Passes Defensed = Interceptions + Passes Broken Up.

 

[Mike the Brit]

It means that Asante just happened to be in the right place at the right time to pick off a floater that the Defensive line forced the QB to put up. Hell, Earthwind Moreland could have made those interceptions.

Oh wow!

You make a good point about having to look at the total picture. But did you watch the way Asante picked off the pass for Marvin Harrison in the Colts' game? It was a simply wonderful piece of defensive play, not a "floater" by any means -- and Samuel wasn't playing away from Harrison to gamble on the interception either. If Earthwind Moreland could do that then: sign Earthwind Moreland now!, I say.

And here's another point. You say: the fact that Asante defended so many passes shows that opposing teams weren't afraid of him. But the fact that he was often defending his opponents' number one receiver (viz. Harrison) is another reason for him to get thrown at which in no way diminishes his standing.

 

[zippo59]

It means that Asante just happened to be in the right place at the right time to pick off a floater that the Defensive line forced the QB to put up. Hell, Earthwind Moreland could have made those interceptions.

If that were true then shoudn't most of the CB's on the team have an equal amount of interceptions because they all had an equal opportunity to be "in the right place at the right time?" But their interception numbers are not even close. Asante blew them all away. Give him his due.

 

[Ring 6]

While having 24 passes defensed is a good stat, it also says that teams were throwing to his side. Meaning that teams weren't afraid of him.....

Not necessarily. Out of some 600 passes, we know they threw 34 his way.
Just because he played 34 of them well doesnt mean a majority went his way.

A GREAT corner will have 1 of 3 (thrown at corners, which is probably 50% of the total passses) thrown hios way not ZERO.
We also play a predominance of zone which takes away a lot of that factor.

If 50% of passes where "Thrown at corners) and 1/3 are thrown at a great corner, that leaves 100. You can surely pick 10 and defense 24 out of 100, even if you are not being 'picked on'.

By the way, do you really think opponents decided their best choice was to throw at Samuel?

 

[Ring 6]

Of which, at least 5 were because of the pressure that the defensive line put on teams, NOT because Samuel went up and beat the receiver for the ball.

It makes a world of difference when you look at the ENTIRE PICTURE and not just certain stats in a vacuum.

In other words, teams didn't respect Samuel and threw to his side, A LOT. That enabled him to have the chances for all the passes defensed and interceptions.

What you are saying is that Samuel is the only DB who didnt get ints by going up an dbeating the WR for the ball. That the Patriot D is the only one in the NFL where ints are not all individual effort by the db, and Samuel is the only db to take advantage of it.
That is very different from the football season I saw.

You could extend this think to things such as:

Running backs are only taking advantage of blocking so LT is just average and he had a lot of holes.
Receivers only catch the ball the QB puts in their hands, so good receiver stats only mean they got thrown to more, and probably by a better QB. Wr stats means nothing.
And on and on.

 

[patsfan55]

Of which, at least 5 were because of the pressure that the defensive line put on teams, NOT because Samuel went up and beat the receiver for the ball.

It makes a world of difference when you look at the ENTIRE PICTURE and not just certain stats in a vacuum.

In other words, teams didn't respect Samuel and threw to his side, A LOT. That enabled him to have the chances for all the passes defensed and interceptions.

while samuel is awful in jump ball situations
(not sure if thats what you meant by "went up and beat the receiver"), he is amazing at breaking off his receivers routes, which was seen in the afc champ, and i think his first int vs the bears to name a couple, isnt that going after the ball at its best

 

[gomezcat]

im still digging
cant find a definitive answer

From the very reliable Vic Ketchman. It's answered in the second question:

http://www.jaguars.com/news/article.aspx?id=4149

 

[brdmaverick]

I'm pretty sure INT's would be included in Passes Defensed. After all, if I intercepted the ball I would consider myself successfully defending against the pass, but ANYWAYS........

Asante has always had his hands around the ball, its just that this year he FINALLY started catching them.

If you watch some old tapes you will see that he gets his hands on the ball a lot, but he doesn't real it in (until this year and late last year).

If you watch the 2004 Championship game at Pittsburgh you will see that he should have had 3 interceptions in that game and came away with none.

 

[PonyExpress]

From the very reliable Vic Ketchman. It's answered in the second question:

http://www.jaguars.com/news/article.aspx?id=4149

Vic is normally very reliable, but in this case his answer is "incomplete". A "pass broken up" is a pass batted away. A "pass defensed" is a pass broken up or intercepted. Samuel had 10 INTS and 14 passes broken up in the regular season, totalling 24 passes defensed. The confusion probably arises because the definition of a pass defensed is "any pass which a defender, through contact with the football, causes to be incomplete." Some people probably assume INTs do not count as "incomplete" passes; but Ints actually count as incomplete passes in a QB's stat line.

 

[gomezcat]

Vic is normally very reliable, but in this case his answer is "incomplete". A "pass broken up" is a pass batted away. A "pass defensed" is a pass broken up or intercepted. Samuel had 10 INTS and 14 passes broken up in the regular season, totalling 24 passes defensed. The confusion probably arises because the definition of a pass defensed is "any pass which a defender, through contact with the football, causes to be incomplete." Some people probably assume INTs do not count as "incomplete" passes; but Ints actually count as incomplete passes in a QB's stat line.

Ah, I see. Thanks.
The other stat I would love to see is "passes not completed because of defender physicality", i.e. those times when a receiver gets their hands on the ball and gets hit so hard that they then drop the ball.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Why, Oh Why? do all you guys think that Belichick won't pay for a shutdown CB in his prime?

Is it because he never drafts OL ? Or that he never drafts RBs? Or that he never drafts LBs? Maybe you think Lawrence Taylor, Harry Carson, or Pepper just dropped out of the clouds to him at LB?

He has paid a CB for three years, more money than he will pay Asante this year, when every dollar came from a smaller CAP. A four to six year contract for Asante is not unexpected by me; although all you junior GMs seems to think its impossible.

Whether Asante is the equal of Ty Law, I actually think he is just entering his Prime, while Bill had Ty only in the later stages of his Prime, and saw him going into decline and then declined to pay him even more. Ty may have been slightly better in the nineties, but he wasn't as good as Asante is now, throughout the Belichick reign.

Remember Bill paid Ty $12 million a year once, and $10 million per, a couple of times!

 

[AzPatsFan]

I think the 24 represents passes defensed, which is a combination of interceptions and tipped passes.

Samuel has a history of this going back to college, where he's still the career leader there. And with the Pats, he led the team in passes defensed before this season also. Difference being, this season he caught more balls leading to his 10 interceptions, but in the past -- he only tipped (or dropped) them. Both Samuel and BB have referred to his improvement (sticky hands) as a major factor in his development.

BTW, when we talk about 'ball skills' pertaining to DB prospects, the "passes defensed" category is an important one to consider. BB has mentioned this quality on several occasions. Primarily means the DB is always around the ball and in position to make a play.

Thanks for posting this interesting tidbit.

Are you cerain that PDs include INTs? Ithought they were deflections only, independent of INTs.

 

[patsfan55]

Are you cerain that PDs include INTs? Ithought they were deflections only, independent of INTs.

see, my question lies here:
is pd pass deflection
or pass defensed

pass defensed def includes ints
but pass deflection is just a tipped or one broken up