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Americans don't Realize Just How Bad It's Going to Get....

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatriotsReign, Sep 30, 2011.

  1. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    "See no Evil, Hear no Evil, Speak no Evil..."

    I think that's what most Americans prefer to do. Bring up how bad our economy is, and most prefer to change the subject. So if that's what you like, read no further.

    But it's REAL bad folks...and it's going to get worse...perhaps a LOT worse in the years ahead. One fact is certain, we are not close to gettting back on track to a "Normal" economy.

    -Europe is crashing and will enter a very deep recession soon
    -China will probably experience their first recession in 30 years
    -Major signs of DE-flation are showing up in the US
    -Ben Bernanke has basically stated "The Fed is out of bullets..."
    -Canada, China and Australia are about to experience the same real estate bust we saw in the US very soon

    Understanding the above facts, it is clear there will be no magic bullets to "Fix" these things. Each of them must be played out no matter what gov'ts do. Americans have to deleverage their debt, Corp. banks must unload bad assets (real estate), and governments have to learn to spend within their means.

    None of this can be avoided and none of it will work itself out quickly.

    I have an empty home across the street from me that the owners walked away from. That was one year ago...to this date, the bank has done nothing to sell the house. It sits there with the grass over-growing everything as if it will rot away.

    This is reality folks...it sucks and it's scary as hell, but it's the Real World.
  2. wistahpatsfan

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    More beer!

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    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Last edited: Sep 30, 2011
  6. PatriotsReign

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  7. PatriotsReign

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    Looks like many of our members prefer the above when it comes to our economic condition...:confused:

    The ECRI (Economic Cycle Research Institute): "US/World Recession is inescapable" and adds that government can't do anything to change the inevitable downturn.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/video/76372300/

    Some quotes from the interview;

    - "We are looking at forward looking indicators, over a dozen leading indicators on different aspects of the US economy, and it's wildfire"

    - "Anyone who is looking for a job has a right to call this a depression"

    - "It's going to get worse"

    - "Spain never left recession, I don't care what the GDP numbers say. Italy's on the verge, and the [European] core is not looking so good."

    - "Dr. Copper is a short-term leading indicator. This thing has room to run. Global industrial growth is not turning up anytime soon"

    - "Government bond yields can go even lower. Look at Japan"

    - "Future inflation gauge for Europe is heading down"
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2011
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think you're too pessimistic PR. I agree that world economy is struggling right now, but I also feel it's been there many times before, and there are solutions out there. The biggest problem, ironically, is that democracy gets in the way. Forming a consensus to implement a full solution, not a partial solution seems almost impossible right now. In my opinion, right now Europe has a better shot at overcoming the economic crisis because they are not as politically polarized as we do.

    That said, I read an interesting article in the New York Times about the progressive consumption tax. The article said it was an interesting compromise that might appeal to both the left and the right since it heavily promotes investments, yet is still progressive and reduces taxes for lower income and many middle income people. The article also stated that Milton Friedman proposed it after WWII to pay off that debt.

    I'm not convinced that it is the solution, but it is at least an interesting one, and I think there are other solutions out there. A straight progressive income tax and increasing taxes on capital gains will in the short term reduce our deficit, at which point the tax code could be modified again. Also, a VAT is a possibility.

    I can't find the article I read, but here's an earlier article that summarizes what a progressive consumption tax does:

    Economist's View: Robert Frank: We Need a Progressive Consumption Tax
  9. PatriotsReign

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    The truth Patters is that we have not "been here before"...at least not since the Great Depression. So for the last 65+ years, the US has not seen this level of sustained unemployment, real estate foreclosures, stock market volitility, world-wide depressed economic growth and constant pessimism.

    Many like you WANT to see my perspective as "pessimistic", but I see it as "Realistic". Just the fact that you wrote "we've been here before" many times shows me that you "want" to believe things aren't terribly bad even in the face of facts that prove they are.

    However you see our economic condition, you need to accept the fact it will "be like this" for a long time.

    I do not support any additional taxes upon our middle class since it is THE most important group in this nation. Any new taxes would reduce demand and we can't afford that right now.

    If you don't think the American middle class pays enough taxes, do me a favor and add up ALL forms of taxation;

    -Federal tax
    -State tax
    -Local tax
    -Auto tax
    -Meal tax
    -Internet tax
    -Cable Television tax
    -Cell Phone tax
    -Sales Tax
    -Toll Tax
    -Excise tax
    -Fica Tax
    -License fee tax
    -Auto inspection tax
    -Gasoline tax
    -STATE LOTTERIES

    At what point do we stop adding to the list? In my opinion, now is a great time!
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2011
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They're not common, but we have had other very serious depressions, thought the last one that was this serious was in the 1830s. Wikipedia has a good list, and if you measure severe by decline in business activity, you could make the case that prior to the New Deal, there were a number of deep depressions.

    But, the rest of your post doesn't respond to the idea of a progressive consumption tax. I did not argue at all to raise taxes on the middle class. In fact, it looks like a progressive consumption tax would lower taxes on the middle class, though I'm not sure.
  11. wistahpatsfan

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    No.
    Just not running in terror when someone on TV cries like Henny Penny. Refuse to live in fear and am grateful every day to Santa that I wake up in Massachusetts and not here:
    [​IMG]

    Or here:
    [​IMG]
  12. PatriotsReign

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    I think that's an appropriate attitude to take. The last few years, I've had some friends and co-workers with some serious cancer (colon, lung, leukemia) and I was impressed with the strength of their character in the face of a deadly disease.

    I think we need to face our economic reality in the same manner. But we can not run around in denial about it. Like you, I do not choose to run in fear. If I did, I would not have purchased my first house last year and would have taken all my 401k investments out of the stock market. This stuff interests the hell out of me, but it doesn't make me afraid.

    Gratitude is something we all need to strive for wistah.
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2011
  13. Titus Pullo

    Titus Pullo Banned

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    This thread is hysterical, it really is. Especially the original post, by a poster who wants to be first at everything so badly, he ridicules those who bring the subject matter to light in the first place, and then follows up later as if he's the only person thinking outside of the box.



    Me: "It's bad... It's really bad."
    PR: "OK doomist... whatever."

    ... (turn the page)

    PR: "It's bad... It's really bad. ... and NO ONE'S TALKING ABOUT IT!"

    LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Worse, you have the root cause all wrong while posting so confidently. You're like a mourner in denial insisting that a drug-addled loved one died of pneumonia or heart failure, but certainly didn't have a drug problem. Never mind the numerous arrests for drug possession, the track marks in his arm, the stints in rehab, nor the rotting teeth. It's the heart attack that killed him. Riiiiiight.

    Let me ask you something, PR. What is God's name do you think is the underlying cause of all this? Just some bad loans and deviant banking practices? Liberal law-makers and over-regulation? Nothing deeper, right?

    At what point are people going to stop lying to themselves and admit the hard truth? I guess we can't blame them, because our "leaders" certainly won't admit it to them either. That might panic the already dying markets too suddenly. :rolleyes: So the industry experts subtly give out the sobering data for them, and no one pays them any attention. "Pffft... scientists."

    Zombies don't know how to do anything but be a zombie. So they just keep trying to "jump-start" a contracting global economy with more and more of the same infinite growth-paradigm insanity.

    You're right. It's really bad. And it can't be fixed so long as the average American continues to live in complete denial of the Earth's natural limits. Our global financial system is hopelessly corrupt, and the curtain has been only recently pulled up on that reality by the arrival at those natural limits. The promise of "more tomorrow" is over. And markets are finally having to admit that the movers and shakers have all got bad debt on their hands, and always did, because they arrogantly assumed there would always be "more tomorrow."

    Once again: Energy is the ability to do work. Money only represents that ability. Energy dictates to the markets, not the other way around.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2011
  14. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    Ladies & Gentlemen...let's hear it for Press Coverage. :rocker:
  15. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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  16. PatriotsReign

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    ytab!!!!:D
  17. Titus Pullo

    Titus Pullo Banned

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  18. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    I received 2 pm's last week out of the blue from long-time members who each agree you're Press Coverage. I won't say who they were from...but one thought you were a solid guy.

    The only person I've ever met who is obsessed with Peal Oil theory was PC...coincidence?

    So look me in the eye and...ah, never mind!

    Hey, only you know if you're a liar or not....I don't have to look in your mirror.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2011
  19. Titus Pullo

    Titus Pullo Banned

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    LOL. The "who is this guy crushing me?" obsession continues. Too funny. They'd all be wrong.

    If anyone knows this guy outside of here, please e-mail him that PR here is channeling him from beyond, without the opportunity to defend himself. From what I've seen of his posts, he'd be eager to petition to come back and hold you accountable. I'd like to share ideas with him anyway. Then your overlords here can compare our IP addresses and scratch their heads at how different they are after all.

    The more I read of this guy, and apple_strudel, and reflexblue, and NEM, the more I like each of them.

    So, when the next new poster joins here who happens to believe that Olduvai theory (or Malthusian) has quite a bit of merit, and who also takes RW drones to task, I'm sure HE'LL be the true reincarnation of apple-press-strudel-coverage-reflex. LOL.

    One thing's for sure though: For all your "look at me!! I'm ahead of the curve" doom-saying, you couldn't answer the question put to you in my original post. You got exposed as a hypocrite, and now you're trying to deflect attention elsewhere.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2011
  20. PatriotsReign

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    whatever...looks like this is getting you excited based on the # of words.

    PR living rent-free in TP's head...:rocker:

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