Welcome to PatsFans.com

American Wealth Redistribution

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by wistahpatsfan, Jun 14, 2011.

  1. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,672
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

  2. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,624
    Likes Received:
    67
    Ratings:
    +126 / 7 / -13

    +40% of people are getting government payments, 47% don't pay any federal taxes. Not good.

    Very sobering graph.
  3. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Messages:
    20,112
    Likes Received:
    217
    Ratings:
    +328 / 6 / -8

    back to the actual topic of the post, the share of the pie working people get is shrinking. I think that's a bad thing.

    Do you think that's good or bad 13?
  4. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,672
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    1947-1996, cyclical and overall consistent.
    93-96, drop steeply
    96-2000, big rise
    Look at the drop 2000-2010!

    I get there's a lag of effect from one admin to the next, but this graph shows something different, IMO. There's been an abrupt shift in the wealth, and it isn't from the poor to the rich.
  5. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,815
    Likes Received:
    144
    Ratings:
    +301 / 4 / -2

    If you ignore the highs and lows you'll see that the trajectory is downward from start to finish, with a much, much sharper decline in the last couple of decades. Basically the chart falls off a cliff. Without knowing the methodology for the chart, I'd point to a number of factors as reasons for the decline. I'd point to explosive government, resulting inflation, the artificial manipulation of interest rates, the inlfux of cheap labor, slashed cap gains rates, free trade, and whatever else you can think of.
  6. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,624
    Likes Received:
    67
    Ratings:
    +126 / 7 / -13

    Speculating here but I can see a combination of factors. Manufacturing supplied a lot of higher paying jobs, a smaller % of workers are in manufacturing, then there is outsourcing in IT that has taken off since 2000, cheaper to hire programmers in India and Pakistan than hiring guys in Silicon Valley and NYC. This I saw first hand after 9-11. On top of that now we have 15% unemployment so there is an obvious supply and demand issue.


    When you look at government policy it doesn't help attract jobs at all. Very high Corp tax rates + a lot of employee overhead (benefits + payroll taxes) make the US a bad place for businesses that can locate in different areas.

    IF you look at the NLRB hassling Boeing about where they can manufacture airplanes you understand why GOD jobs are fleeing America. If I am Boeing or another big US company and I see this nonsense next time I just build overseas if I want to be competitive.
  7. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    40,999
    Likes Received:
    107
    Ratings:
    +186 / 6 / -23

    On the contrary, if you look at the behemoth, bloated defense and Homeland security budgets.. they have spawned a huge industrial complex and many jobs on your dime.

    Boeing is not going to leave america, they are moving to a third world state (South Carolina) and there are union issues.. if they do leave the country, then they should loose all of their defense contracts..
  8. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    25,833
    Likes Received:
    84
    Ratings:
    +188 / 3 / -10

    Off the top of my head, this chart doesn't reflect income distribution at all. It shows WORKER'S SHARE OF NATIONAL INCOME. So that means that those who aren't working are not counted or that they do count and they're dragging down the average.

    To RW's point, we don't know the methodology nor do we understand the chart's relationship to income distribution.

    Question #1 - How is a "Worker" being defined?
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2011
  9. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Messages:
    20,112
    Likes Received:
    217
    Ratings:
    +328 / 6 / -8

    I think you said this backwards, unless I'm missing a nuance, right?

    (i.e., it isn't from the rich to the poor)

    I'm not doing the "gotcha" thing, just making sure I am reading what you mean.

    PFnV
  10. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    25,833
    Likes Received:
    84
    Ratings:
    +188 / 3 / -10

    "Workers' share of national income" may just be all private household income as a percent of GDP. If that's the case, off-shoring would dramatically reduce AMERICANS' share of national income.

    In my opinion, that is the main point your graph is illustrating. It doesn't really show anything about "Wealth Redistribution" per se. As a matter of fact, your graph includes people with incomes well over $250k...as long as they are "workers".

    Finally, my last point is that almost every company has reduced their workforce and increased output. My company hasn't added any significant numbers to our payroll over the past 6 years, but our company has gone from $350MM to almost $1B annually over that same period. So even our employees share of our company's income has declined dramatically. But since my income has increased by over 25% over that time, I don't feel like I'm getting ripped off or anything.
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2011
  11. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,672
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    oh, yeah...what you said...
  12. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    2,127
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Do you really believe that cutting taxes for Corporations will create jobs in the USA? All tax cuts will do is improve the bottom line and shareholder value for Corporations.

    Did you miss the news a few months ago where a lot of Corporations don't pay any taxes?
  13. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,624
    Likes Received:
    67
    Ratings:
    +126 / 7 / -13


    Cutting taxes and Burdensome regulations also.

    Take this situation with the Boeing Plant, the government is telling Boeing where they can and can't build planes in the US (they want them build in non right to work states). They may prevent Boeing from Building and hiring 1,000 people in SC.

    Now a CEO seeing this type of bullying by the Feds, when they are making a decision where to make a product may find it much easier to go overseas where they don't have to engage in legal battles with the Federal government and delay getting their product to market.

    I would think this would be obvious?
  14. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    2,127
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Cutting taxes and "burdensome" regulations won't create any jobs. What are these burdensome regulations you speak of? Do you want to go back to the days where factory's can spew chemicals into the air and rivers/oceans?

    That would be awesome :rolleyes:
  15. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,624
    Likes Received:
    67
    Ratings:
    +126 / 7 / -13

    BTW see this article about the new financial regulations:

    BLANKLEY: Brother, can you spare a regulation? - Washington Times

    Qyestion from CEO of JP Morgan to Geithner:
    So the people putting riles in place have no idea as to the cost of compliance...... Would you buy a car or make any investment if you don't know how much it will COST?????????

    This sort of incident shows how out of touch the government is.
  16. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,624
    Likes Received:
    67
    Ratings:
    +126 / 7 / -13


    No one is talking about allowing businesses to pollute the way they do in China, if you don't believe that government actions don't have consequences fine as the US bleeds jobs and unemployment is ~15% and we are told the economy isn't in recession and inflation is not high.
  17. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    15,746
    Likes Received:
    186
    Ratings:
    +331 / 6 / -7

    So you complain about federal spending, you complain about the deficit and debt, you complain about a stagnant economy, and your prescription is to cut taxes and deregulate.

    Does that seem coherent to you, at all?
  18. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,815
    Likes Received:
    144
    Ratings:
    +301 / 4 / -2

    All corporations pay taxes. They pay matching payroll taxes, real estate taxes, excise taxes, property taxes, etc. What they don't all pay is corporate taxes on "profit", as "profit" has become something most are good at hiding (or protecting depending on your POV).

    I personally would eliminate some of the deductions or breaks given, and reduce the corporate tax rate to 20%, or something that would have reporting profit more common. We really need to make it attractive to stay in the country and do business.
  19. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    2,127
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I think you and I are on the same page when it comes to this issue as their are way to many ways for Corporations to hide their incomes.

    It doesn't help that States try and lure Corporations from other States with tax breaks, free land, etc.

    It seems all 50 States are fighting each other to give a Corporation the best deal ever. Hey, lets take 5,000 jobs from Massachusetts and give 3,000 jobs to New Hampshire. New Hampshire claims a win while 2,000 people say WTF?
  20. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,624
    Likes Received:
    67
    Ratings:
    +126 / 7 / -13






    Regulate when necessary and regulate intelligently,

    Reducing the size and intrusiveness of government will lead to more growth, jobs and wealth. That is the way it works. Government is overhead, and by it's nature inefficient. It should me the minimum required not consuming >40% of GDP

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>