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Am I wrong in being fearful of a Peppers signing?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by skri65, Mar 12, 2009.

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  1. skri65

    skri65 Rookie

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    I just can't wrap my mind around how we could ever re-sign our key players (wilfork, mankins, etc) if we sign Peppers to a deal that will inevitably be costly.

    Am I missing something? If we resign Bodden (if all goes well), re-sign wilfork, re-sign mankins, gost, big sey, and then we can consider light, neal,and others. How in the world could we afford Peppers?

    I want to be excited about the possible (I intentionally omit "likely") signing, but I am in fact scared by it. Can you convince me otherwise?
  2. eom

    eom Rookie

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    why is there so much peppers in here?

    how much do we pay him?
  3. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    All those players you mentioned are under contract going into an uncapped year.

    They don't HAVE to resign anyone now.

    They can resign many of those players using creative methods in an uncapped year, such as super high 1 year salaries.

    They can also save money by having players such as Bruschi, Neal, leave and/or retire. Then the salary cap might go up again.

    Lots of time between now and next year to create extra space for Mankins and Wilfork. Gost isn't going to break the bank.

    In other words, I'm not concerned.
  4. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    Agrree'd, I think we are in a position of strength going into an uncapped year.
  5. diggemsmack

    diggemsmack Rookie

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    don't be fearful just breathe and remember in BB WE TRUST.
  6. Feep50

    Feep50 Rookie

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    YES!! Be very, very afraid! Pepper's is the devil!
  7. Grizzafted

    Grizzafted Rookie

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    fortunately for you, julius peppers isn't signing with the team.

    jason taylor is, and we're going to get a larry english/conor barwin/clint sintim to be his understudy.

    we have tons of great draft picks, there's no need to panic and sign a conversion project who will want more money than he deserves. won't happen.
  8. nashvillepatsfan

    nashvillepatsfan Rookie

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    BB will NEVER break the bank on a player that could possibly hurt the teams future. I also am a little nervous about a peppers deal, but not because of the money. Bill will always look to the future, and never risk putting the team in salary cap hell.
  9. StyLeZ X

    StyLeZ X Rookie

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    this draft for us is going to be so ******* sexy!:singing:
  10. brdmaverick

    brdmaverick Rookie

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    Is a Peppers signing 'likely' at this point? Or are we still at the point of rumor?
  11. LoganMankinsPancakeBlocks

    LoganMankinsPancakeBlocks Rookie

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    I think so because how can we afford him under the cap for this year, let alone in the future when we have to pay all our other guys?

    Jason Taylor on a 1 or 2 year deal and drafting an OLB pass rushing prospect in the first 2 rounds seems like a much more likely scenario to me and they might have to get a little creative to afford Taylor as well even though he'll be far cheaper than Peppers.
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2009
  12. BlitzFritz

    BlitzFritz Rookie

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    two points
    1. you are forgetting that next year will probably be an uncapped year, (or the cap will go up.) more money to spend

    2. why are you assuming BB would spring for peppers when he is UNPROVE
    N in the 3-4? i am skeptical, and think the JasonTaylor one year rental is more his style while he grooms some youth

    -- FRITZ
  13. nashvillepatsfan

    nashvillepatsfan Rookie

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    This is something that bothers me. Too many people keep saying next year is uncapped. There is still a chance that that will change. Assuming we have a crap load to spend next year is not smart. As you said, it "probably" will be.
  14. satz

    satz Rookie

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    pepper will not be avaiabable for a draft pick unless we can trade vince wilfork to play dt to carolina . vince 1 yr left and have a less cap hit so carolina might take them to bolster their DT position and then i think their is a realistical change of getting peppers.

    when is the last blockbuster deal happen like that ... so the probability is less but if i am corolina and loosing peppers to NE via a trade and NE wants him bad will ask for vince wilfork .vince will anchor the carolina DL for 8 yrs solid ,he is young and carolina can get him for a 50 million deal extended to do it.
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2009
  15. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #51 Jersey

    Pie in the sky theory. Why would we trade away arguably our most important player on defense and replace him with someone that might not be able to fill a need?

    I'd love to see Peppers in a Pats uniform, just for the sheer intimidation factor our defense would bring on back of a formidable offense.. but not at the price of sending Wilfork to Carolina.
  16. Number 2

    Number 2 Rookie

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    I think having Peppers would be a nice addition to the team, however it

    would cost alot to get him. I think with the draft and the depth it provides

    we can get some great players. With all the free agency signs to the

    defensive backs it appears the pass rush will be targeted with the draft.

    With the option of the uncapped year and the wealth of the team I don't

    think retaining some of our star players will be hard. The owners of all teams

    are going to push for the uncapped year so everyone can make huge signings

    for thier teams while they can. Which potenitally can create some quite a

    dominate teams in the near future.
  17. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    Why would players give up an uncapped year?
  18. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My general rule of thumb has always been that player that everyone considers the 'must have' the 'beast' the 'guy we desperately need' never turns out to be that guy.
    Personally I think the most overrated players in the NFL are guys who only rush the passer and dont even pretend to play the run (Freeney is the classic example). I think this is partly because fans love sacks, partly because the media does and at least equally because sacks are about the only stat that a defensive player can point to and have it affect his paycheck, so it gets overhyped all around.
    I want my defensive player to play 1000 defensive plays effectively. 400 or so of those are running plays, unless I cant stop the run and then 600 are. I want my defensive players, especially the ones I shell out the most money for to be effective, and not a liability on 1000 plays rather than have them give me 15 exciting ones. This is why comparison of say Richard Seymour and Dwight Freeney aqre ridiculous. They arent even in the same area code. Seymour plays every down, and does everything a DE is supposed to do very well. Freeney rushes the QB 1000 times, gets run past he is spinning out of position on a run play and gets some sacks. He is a liability on 20 plays for every sack he gets.
    For all of these reasons, I am against Peppers coming here. He surely isnt as one-dimensional as Freeney, but he is first and foremost a guy who only cares about sack numbers. Thats not our style. He is not awful vs the run as a 43 DE, but far from good, and that translates to trouble if converting him the a 34 OLB.
    Trade for Peppers, get a sack a game, make everyone think it was a great move because there is a number to judge him on, and you end up with a guy who helped you on 15 plays (whoever else was in his spot probably would have done half of that anyway) and weakens you on 400+.
    BB has never had a 'small, speedy, passrush specialist' not because they are expensive but because they just dont fit his philosophy. What you lose with that type of player is more important to BB than what you gain.
    Go find one who can also play the run like a Mike Vrabel, and BB will beat down doors to get him, but I haven't seen that guy out there to get.
  19. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There are negatives to the players as well if it goes to an uncapped agreement.
    First there is no minimum cap, so the gains you get from rich teams spending could be overcome by cheap teams not.
    Also there is a longer time period to become an UFA.
    There are some other things that are so union friendly as well, but I dont recall all of them.
  20. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think that is entirely correct. If the Pats somehow get Peppers, then they will have a plan on how to fit his salary in and keep their other key players. They are never shortsighted.

    I've been intrigued by the possibility of Peppers for a while, but at this juncture I don't think it's going to happen. I haven't been a big fan of signing Jason Taylor, but right now I think it would be a better long-term if we could get Taylor at a reasonable rate for 2 years and draft an OLB (Connor Barwin, Clay Matthews, etc.) and let them learn for 2 years under Taylor and Thomas. Taylor would probably not be that far removed from Peppers over a 2 year period (he might even be better given his experience at 3-4 OLB), and in 2011 I think we would be better off with a 24 year Barwin or Matthews than a 31-32 year old Peppers, especially given the salary.

    If Peppers is an option, I think it will happen on draft day. If BB misses out on the OLB prospects that he likes, I could see him trading #34 (maybe with #89 thrown in) for Peppers. But I think at this point it's an extreme long shot.
  21. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    One interesting fact that people seem to miss is that the generally accepted practice of the Patriots getting value per dollar in contracts is that the only reason to save on one player is to be able to spend more on another. By nature, that means a Patriot type approach means you are more able to afford the marquee guy than other teams.
    In reality though, the success of the team has made many players more expensive, so that savings gets spread thinner and thinner each year. In 2006, almost all of our team was 2 time champions. That costs.
  22. satz

    satz Rookie

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    Not so far fetched actually if carolina is your team. If i am carolina fan for a minute i will not take anything less. pepper is a physical freak and is a dynamic player.
    i want something back which will hold the defensive line and anchor it for a few year for such a high priced player if you think some draft pick is going to do this you are wrong , carolina is not in a purge and rebuild mode.anything less if i was a carolina fan i will want FO head with the HC too for being patriot fans.
  23. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think Seymour gets traded, Wilfork gets re-worked and maybe they try to sign Taylor.

    If Peppers comes here they would have to get rid of Seymour and Faulk, that seems like a lot.
  24. Grizzafted

    Grizzafted Rookie

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    So, Andy, from that criteria, who do you think we draft? Sintim, Barwin, or English? Or do we move up to try and get Cushing or Orakpo?
  25. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I absolutley do not know enough about the draft class to answer.
    If we do draft an OLB, it wont be a Gholston kind of guy (IMO, BB would not have drafted him under any circumstances last year) who is solely a pass rusher, but will be a complete player who can play the run as well as rush the passer. Some teams make pass rush skills the only criteria for 43 DE/34 OLB and hope they can be adequate at everything else. BB doesnt do that, and typically, the pass rushers are most hyped.
  26. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Regardless of the various opinions about an uncapped year, the reality is that the NFL still has a salary cap this year. The Pats just don't have the room needed to sign Peppers, even if they wanted to. In fact, I don't think they have enough room to sign Taylor either, even if a few contracts are re-worked. In my opinion anybody else signed will be for relatively low contracts, primarily for depth. For example, the Pats may re-sign Mike Wright, and will probably add a WR in the $1-1.5 million range.
  27. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

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    Sums it up nicely. It's not like Peppers is a malcontent who wants out of Carolina. Carolina needs him more then anyone, so to accept anything less then a pro-bowl player or high draft pick just isn't going to happen. Then once you get through the trade, you have to pay the man. Then once you pay the man you have to put him into a position he's never played before, because he thinks it would be fun at this point in his career. No team is going to take that risk, so let him play out his franchise tag year and see what happens if he hits FA next year.
  28. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    Everything pretty much makes sense on what you say. I would love to "try" Peppers in that position on the Pats but there is no guarantees. Here is an idea that might work better in the long run.

    I have mentioned this before so opt out of reading this if you prefer cousins, but our strengths number wise for value that could be offered in a trade is RB. RB might be the easiest position to replace in the draft because it is the easiest to learn in the NFL as far as skill positions. We know the Eagles need a RB and TE. Buckhalter is gone and LJ Smith is a FA. Booker was a flop. They need a shared backfield with Westbrook which is the best scenario for Maroney. He is a "share the carries" type guy. I believe Maroney is a "replaceable part" and was certainly not a first round value at this point. Same might be said for Thomas. They both need to redefine their careers. Change of scenery might work well for them.

    The Eagles have three decent DEs. We wanted Chris Gocong in 06 (same class as Maroney and Thomas). All three of these guys have had injuries but Goncong is now healthy and productive in both pass and run. There also is an item about saving CAP space by moving Maroney $2.5m I believe. Not sure on Thomas...but we would acquire Gocongs. Should save a little anyway.

    It might also be worth a mid pick to us from them as well. I could see this trade help both teams value to value.

    Posters say..."No..Never happen!" Why not? You have an instant "experienced" Mike Vrabel type piece and BB prefers vets. Maroney has two other backs here that might be over him on the roster. Do we let him sit on the bench? Can't we get a Rashard Jennings or a Bernard Scott in the mid rounds that would be an adequate replacement for Maroney? Would Thomas hurt us to lose?

    Thoughts? (other than "The Eagles won't do it because I said so" stuff unless you have valid insider information to share)
    DW Toys
  29. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    There is only a chance that it will be a capped year IF the NFLPA stops dragging its arse and gets its new Executive Director put in place. Its been nearly 7 months since Gene Upshaw passed away and they are no closer now to replacing him. Big whoop, they are down to 6 Candidates.. But the 6th candidate, David Cornwell, has been put on and taken off the ballot at least twice.

    Its really a wonder that the NFLPA can get things done at all.
  30. Synovia

    Synovia Rookie

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    Considering how bad Taylor was last year, there is a chance that he goes cheap.
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