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Am I A Loon

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Harry Boy, Apr 15, 2010.

  1. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    One of my biggest Hero's is Jack Kavorkian, does that make me a Moonbat------------:D

    I Hope Not.
  2. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Yes.

    Iit also makes me wonder why you rail against "death panels." Sarah Palin's (untrue) horror story ought to be right up your alley.
  3. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Obamacare could kill younger people who don't have terminal illness, Kavorkian kills people who are suffering and are going to die anyway, like a horse or a dog that has been squashed and mangled by a SUV..........
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2010
  4. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey


    There's nothing wrong with wanting an easy death when the only other alternative is a hard one, Harry. Personally speaking, I think anyone who thinks otherwise is the real moonbat, although I do not begrudge them that choice. I just don't want them taking away mine - or even worse, refusing to give me an option at all.

    Death is a certainty. We are all going to do it. We should have a say-so in how. We should be allowed to fight as long and as fiercly as possible or we should be allowed to lie down and go gently into that good night. We should be informed as to the possibility of death when we become deathly ill and we should be fully informed as to likely time spans and anticipated amount of pain involved before we make our decisions.

    Many doctors are afraid to mention either of those things in conjunction with treatment options. They don't want to "depress" their patients, they don't want to "give up" on their patients, they don't want to discuss death at all for the most part. It frustrates most of them - they went into medicine to save lives, not to watch them die and, being decent human beings for the most part, they don't like to see their patients die - they most especially dont like to TELL them that they're going to die. They'd much rather pump up the 15% cure rate than tell you about the 85% mortality rate of any given treatment. They also tend to minimize the side effects and the toll treatment takes on your body for fear it will look like they're trying to discourage you from fighting the good fight.

    People deserve to be informed - fully informed - about their chances and the price of those chances. Not just the monetary price but the physical toll, as well. And once they are informed, there ought to be an option C - not just A) treat your disease radically and aggressively, or B) go home and die the best you can - hope it doesn't hurt too much. Option C would be the Kervokian way - or maybe not even that - hospice is damn good at helping people die a good death....they make you as pain free as possible and they help you and your family accept your choice - and if the morphine causes you to quit breathing a few days before you would have quit breathing without it, so be it.

    I don't look upon the "death talk" as a "death panel" at all. Never did. I don't believe the intention was to tell people when and how to die - I believe it was meant to tell them that they don't have to treat their disease aggressively if they don't want to.
    It was meant to force doctors to give patients their options - all of them - and an honest discussion about what each option entailed. It is the difference between, "if you take this medication the odds are you will live an extra two or three months," and "if you take this medication the odds are you will live an extra two or three months in great pain and agony, vomiting and shi!!ing yourself virtually non-stop and your hair will fall out in great gobs and you will itch and swell and your mouth will fill with great oozing canker sores and we will eventually have to put tubes in all of your orifaces."

    Ach, never mind. I've got too much personal history to be objective, I suppose. I watched two very close relatives die of the same type of cancer. The first one listened to the doctor, had the surgeries, took the chemos and the radiations, had more surgeries, threw up, lost 60% of his body weight, lost control of his bowels and bladder, lost the ability to swallow or talk and died an absolutely horrible death - and it took him 9 very long agonizing, screaming months to do it. The second one had watched the first one die and when she was diagnosed with the same disease she took her dignity and went home where she died peacefully, quietly drugged into a pain-free state by hospice and surrounded by her family, 6 quality-filled months later.

    From where I sit, it's a no-brainer, Harry. But I don't deny people the right to fight as long and as hard as they want - I do not, however, want them denying you or I the right to say, "Enough," and let us go - on our own terms.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2010
  5. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    Actually, that's not true, Harry. At least two of Kavorkian's patients were not terminal - nor were they old.

    Miller, 43, had advanced multiple sclerosis and had approached Kevorkian a year earlier.

    Marjorie Wantz, 58, also had sought Kevorkian's help for years. Although not terminally ill, she suffered excruciating pain after many surgeries to remove benign vaginal tumors. She had tried to kill herself several times. Psychiatrists said she was depressed and suicidal and some felt her pain was psychosomatic. (Later, when the medical examiner conducted her autopsy he found no physical cause for her pain.)


    frontline: the kevorkian verdict: Interviews | PBS
  6. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    Harry you are a loon for other reasons, this is just one in a long list things...
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I know............................:D
  8. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I love Loons. We have a place on a lake and we get lots of them. They're pretty amazing, loons.

    [​IMG]
  9. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Loon River wider than a mile
    I'm crossing you in style
    Some Day
  10. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    I saw a cat try to bring down a loon. It was one of the funniest things I have ever seen. Had it occurred after 2006, it would have been a youtube sensation.

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