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Alfonzo Dennard Trial

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by MTM558, Feb 11, 2013.

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  1. PatsFanLisa

    PatsFanLisa On the Roster

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    Hi! I used "up to a year" in the case of if he were to serve jail time. I think that would make a difference in the type, if any, of suspension the NFL might consider.

    If he were to take a plea, he's saying he's guilty of a crime. I'm glad he didn't. Why should he have a record if he believes he's not guilty of committing a crime?
     
  2. Jackson 2

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    #12 Jersey

    It's difficult for me to believe that Goodell has the authority to discipline someone for an event which took place before the player joined the NFL. But with this guy, I think he's often inclined to shoot first and ask questions later, so who knows? Plus, relatively speaking, for someone of his position and achievement level, I don't think he's particularly bright. Just my opinion.
     
  3. Joker

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    Haven't been in Lincoln Nebraska in decades...all I remember is a whole bunch of corn fed porkers with highway patrol badges in the 6'4" to 6'6" range weighing in at 300 -350 pounds...guess law enforcement standards have dropped since then because this poor guy got punched real hard by this mean 5' 10" guy....you know you're in trouble when you walk into the courtroom and it's got kangaroo wallpaper
     
  4. supafly

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    #24 Jersey

    Well that's certainly a fair question to ask, but in our country about 80% or 4/5 cases in the criminal system are resolved by plea bargains.

    What exactly is he "not guilty of?" Dennard was obviously guilty of hitting at least one person, if not two, so he's certainly guilty on some level. However in our wonderful adversarial system of US law, the defense always has a right to fight the charge based on loopholes and any lack of sufficient evidence.

    The defense's argument is that the cop did not identify himself first and also that the initial student victim cannot say for sure that it was Dennard who punched him, so they do have some potential loopholes to try and use to their advantage.

    Taking a plea to a lesser charge and being guilty of a misdemeanor isn't too big of a deal, especially when you're looking at felonies and multiple yrs of jail/prison time, and that's exactly why many people choose that option.

    The evidence obviously comes into play along with the strength of the prosecution's case. If the case is strong (in this instance we have mixed messages from the cop testifying that it was Dennard which is strong, all the way down to the actual initial victim who testified that he couldn't necessarily say that it's Dennard which is weak) then usually the defense attorney will often recommend a plea deal, especially when it guarantees not having to gamble on a jail/prison sentence.

    Anytime you choose to pass up a plea deal you automatically gamble due to taking it to trial, where the punishment is way more severe if you are found guilty.

    In this case, we don't know yet whether it was the prosecution's decision to not allow Dennard the option of a plea deal, or Dennard's representation that pushed for an outright innocent verdict based on the fact that the victim #1 (not the cop) can't testify that it was Dennard, which weakens the case.

    There is also a 3rd option that the prosecution offered a plea deal on some level (I personally find it hard to believe that there was nothing offered on any level, but it's just my opinion) that included some minor jail time, and Dennard did not want to take any jail time at all, even if it was only 90 days for example. Many times the prosecution still offers something, even if it is still considered severe by the defense and they cannot come to terms. However in this case the charge may have been severe enough that the officer's opinon and the prosecution's opinion was that they are going to swing for the fences and find him guilty to the highest level that the law allows.
     
  5. supafly

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    #24 Jersey

    I agree with you with these thoughts. It's hard to believe that he'd be punished for something before he was even a part of the league, but stranger things have happened with Goodell at the helm.

    I don't think he comes across as extremely bright either, although I'm sure he has nice credentials to go along with his position.
     
  6. SONS_OF_BELICHICK

    SONS_OF_BELICHICK Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    #93 Jersey

    I thought I read somewhere that ....the cop wouldnt allow the prosecution to plea out to a lesser .charge...
     
  7. supafly

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    #24 Jersey

    Yes, Deus Irae stated that yesterday, and provided some quotes from one of the attorneys.

    In many cases though, the prosecution will still offer something to guarantee a guilty plea and expedite the process to save time, money, and important court resources.

    The problem is that their "something" that they may have offered could have still been multiple years of jail/prison, which in essence isn't really budging at all. No one really knows the specific level of truth to what these guys say, and how much they can bend the truth to appear to be in charge.

    They very well may treat charges of assault on a police officer as an offense that can't be offered anything at all, especially out in Nebraska. It all depends on the way that they feel and/or usually handle things, not to mention how big the case or offender's reputation may be. In their specific location I would imagine that the case has gotten plenty of attention, and the prosecution may want to appear to really be coming down hard.

    It's possible some of these questions may be answered on some level at the end, while others will still be left for speculation.
     
  8. I Augustus

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    Off-duty police officer moonlighting in a bar,acting as a bouncer ?
    A good defense attorney will rip him apart on cross-examination.
     
  9. supafly

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    #24 Jersey

    Let's hope so. I think there are 2 big factors here as it pertains to the defense:

    1. The initial victim (student or younger kid) can't "say for sure" that it was Dennard who hit him. To me that creates some doubt for certain, even though Dennard isn't on trial for the crimes against him, it creates some questions as to Dennard's overall involvement, his potential character that's being doubted, and most importantly the main cause of the whole thing. If there is doubt as to whether or not Dennard even hit the first kid, then it'd be a lot more reasonable to assume that someone may act the way that he did towards the off-duty officer assuming he will claim that he had no idea why someone was trying to tackle and restrain him for doing nothing wrong in the first place.

    The 'proof'/testimony that they currently have is the cop stating that he saw Dennard hit the kid from approx. 70 feet away. While that's probably damning enough in most cases coming from a sworn officer of the law's mouth, the fact that the actual victim cannot identify him for certain also creates some doubt, and could be just as equally off-setting.

    2. Whether or not the officer made enough of a good natured attempt at identifying himself as an officer to Dennard when he was trying to restrain him. I think that this is certainly key.

    Of course we see plenty of officers who embelish the truth in court everyday in this country (and plenty who are stand up 100% honest also) so his word alone may end up being enough to slay the defense's "reasonable doubt" cause or tie up any loopholes they had hoped to exploit.
     
  10. Nunchucks

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    I do not get why off-duty cops acting as bouncers get some special power that makes hitting them a felony. They are off-duty, hence they should be treated like any other bouncer.
     
  11. BradyFTW!

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    #12 Jersey

    That's not how plea bargains work. People take plea bargains not because they're guilty, but because, even if you're 100% positive that you're innocent, anything can happen when you go to trial. In large part because the 'jury of your peers' is typically way, way too stupid/biased to understand the concepts of 'presumption of innocence' and 'beyond a reasonable doubt'.

    No matter how sure you are of your innocence, plea bargains are simply the better option if you're pleading down from a felony to a misdemeanor. The fact that Dennard didn't already resolve this whole situation by taking one means that either a) he's an idiot, or b) the prosecution didn't offer him one, which would pretty much have to be because they want to make an example out of him just because he punched an off-duty cop (if it was an off-duty construction worker, of course, they wouldn't give a ****).

    That said, I agree that plea bargains suck on principle. It's basically extortion, but the Supreme Court unfortunately (and definitively) ruled otherwise, I believe in the '70s. As a result, you can now see way more arrests for petty BS, since cops aren't so worried about clogging up the court system with essentially meaningless cases when the majority plea bargain anyway.
     
  12. BradyFTW!

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    #12 Jersey

    Honestly, if that's what ends up leading to a guilty verdict--simply the author saying that he's sure it was Dennard--then we can safely say that the jury was completely incompetent. Unfortunately, juries are completely incompetent as often as not. That's why you don't let cases go to trial in the first place.
     
  13. Get it shawtaay

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    #32 Jersey

    The most important part of all this is that the cop described the punch as an 8/10. Is the cop just a humongous blubbering vag? or can we look forward to Alfonzo Dennard delivering 8/10s at the line of scrimmage?
     
  14. DocHoliday

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    Alfonzo Dennard Trial is Today

    On the other hand, he is a terrific press guy, so there might be sone truth to it
     
  15. juxtapoz15

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    #54 Jersey

  16. supafly

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    #24 Jersey


    Thought that some would like to see these tweets today:


    --Lori Pilger ‏@LJSpilger
    Cop described #Dennard as apologietic, respectful, in interview following his arrest April 21.


    --Jonathan Edwards ‏@LJSedwards
    Physician's asst. who treated #LNK police ofc who was allegedly hit by Alfonzo #Dennard testified that cut to ofc's neck was "superficial."
     
  17. DaBruinz

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    #50 Jersey

    A few things.
    1) The league can't suspend Dennard for actions that occurred prior to him entering their employ.
    2) There is no way the Cop knew who Dennard would be playing for.
    3) No way the cop could know what Dennard's salary would be.
    4) Everyone's pain tolerance is different. For instance, I tore my ACL in half and the pain was an 11 or 12 on a scale of 10.. So much so that when it happened I actually passed out for 3-4 seconds..
     
  18. DaBruinz

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    #50 Jersey

    It was a 17 second video and the author of the story made it sound like the video was inconclusive as to what happened and as to whether or not the police officer identified himself.
     
  19. supafly

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    #24 Jersey

    Not to mention that if the cop is potentially contemplating a civil suit, the fact that the physician's assistant claims that "it was a small superficial cut on the neck" isn't going to bode too well for his case.
     
  20. DaBruinz

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    #50 Jersey

    Clearly you missed the whole part where the arresting officer has refused to allow the 3rd Degree Felony Charge to be pleaded down to a misdemeanor. Clearly that doesn't make Dennard an idiot.

    Hell, for all we know, the cop set Dennard up by having this Ben Samani go across the street, wait for Dennard to cross and plow into Dennard in such a way to make it look like Dennard started something so that Kopsa could arrest the "big time football player".
     
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