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Aldon Smith


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There are some who are obsessed (mgteich cough cough) with the concept that DE is our biggest NEED. I disagree. I think O-line and Edge rusher are far more critical for the Patriots next season. When you look at our current D line (Wilfork, T. Warren, G. Warren, Wright, Stroud, Brace, Love, Pryor & Deadrick) compared to our current Offensive line (Vollmer, Koppen, Connolly, Mankins????, Light????) or OLBs (Cunningham, Ninkovich, TBC) I don't know how you can assert DE as our biggest NEED. When it comes to positional value in the draft, there is room to argue where in the draft certain positions should be drafted. I think many on this board would agree that quality 3-4 DEs don't grow on trees and likely require a higher draft pick to obtain. The question of wether we absolutely need to spend our No. 17 pick on a DE is subject to debate.

You did a great job so far IMO.

pass rush is the need...and not even in terms of number of sacks.....simply more pressure to force the QB to get rid of the ball much sooner than they were forced to last year.......the reason why some say DE is that none of the DL guys the pats have right now can create the kind of pressure in the passing game that they were used to seeing with seymour.

I think the pats need to get more athletic at the RDE position......but still have the size to maintain the 2 gap DL scheme used by the pats.....both watt and jordan are better suited for the 1 gap schemes used in dallas and san diego, but will get pushed around trying to do what is needed here......hence wilkerson....big and stout and still more mobile than anyone we have here......he can push double teams into the QB and will help open things up for whoever is at OLB. if the DE can't do that, then the OLB gets exposed. as in any scheme
 
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pass rush is the need...and not even in terms of number of sacks.....simply more pressure to force the QB to get rid of the ball much sooner than they were forced to last year.

The bottom line is the Patriots need to consistently get pressure on the QB with four rushers wether we are in a 43 front or 34. As Tom Brady says, the toughest defenses to face are the ones that have a formidible 4 man rush.

......the reason why some say DE is that none of the DL guys the pats have right now can create the kind of pressure in the passing game that they were used to seeing with seymour.

Are you sure Seymour was the key to our pass rush? Is it because he was constantly double teamed allowing others to get to the passer?

I think the pats need to get more athletic at the RDE position......but still have the size to maintain the 2 gap DL scheme used by the pats.....both watt and jordan are better suited for the 1 gap schemes used in dallas and san diego, but will get pushed around trying to do what is needed here......hence wilkerson....big and stout and still more mobile than anyone we have here..

I agree. I think Wilkerson is the best suited DE for the Pats scheme behind Dareus.
 
My thoughts from the other day revisited on a clear mind:

DE is a huge need for this team, let's not act like OLB is the only need. I've read a few media outlets recently that have been pining for us to draft a premier pass rusher like Quinn (although I'm not sold he's a premier pass rusher to begin with, I'll get to that later). As I was trying to say earlier, and it came out quite convoluted: the Patriots do technically play a 3-4 but the personnel and what they're asked to do is more akin to 5-2. Meaning the Patriots OLBs act as extensions of the defensive line in the standard formation, this is directly related to Belichicks defensive philosophy of playing a hybrid of man and zone at almost all times. It's a big part of the reason that some players would flop in our defense who thrive in others. Belichick is fanatical about the concept of reading and reacting as it directly stems from his basic [football] personality. Conceptually speaking, if you understand what another team is doing in football and have players who can rapidly identify this and counteract it you will win every game. It's a big part of the reason this team has won as many games as it has. This concept is also apparent on the offensive side of the football, the Patriots the last year have made a huge switch in philosophy that I've touched on before. It's called unpredictability, they drafted offensive players who can line up all over the formation and run just about every route. Not to mention that they run out of passing sets, and pass out of running sets. It's a big part of the reason why Moss was jettisoned, he was completely predictable and had little to no diversity (and he just wasn't that good at his one thing he did anymore either). It's part of the reason I wouldn't be shocked to see Welker not resigned either, but that's another conversation entirely. The concept being that as more and more and more teams try to attack defensively and force you into making mistakes, this offense keeps the defense on their heals and allows them to dictate the flow of the game as few players, especially on defense, have the capability to read the other teams formations and use almost encyclopedic knowledge from film study to attack them correctly (for example, Tom does this on offense).

Anywho, back to the defense. Belichick understands that if you just pin your ears back and rush that you will get exposed. Like the Pats do to the Steelers every time they play. The Steelers have a great defense against teams with QBs who can't identify the zone blitzes, but once you do they are exposed. You can game plan around these aggressive blitzes. So what Belichick wants his high [football] IQ players who can read what the offense is doing and accurately do their responsibility. This includes the OLBs. The Patriots will blitz, certainly, but not like teams like the Steelers or Packers. They will frequently ask their OLBs to engage with OTs or whoever is on their side and be ready to shed that block to attack a RB or hold it to force the RB to go to sideline allowing the pursuit to arrive. Granted, if the play is headed in the other direction they are asked to quickly disengage and partake in backside pursuit (something Cunningham is very good at, he has the makings of a very good strong side OLB). Because of this the OLBs are generally hoped to have good length and strong use of handle in order to be able to engage an offensive tackle and maintain control of said situation without just getting mauled (with the way tackles are built, especially left tackles, they will absolutely abuse most OLBs if they're asked to engage them head on in gap control).

In addition to maintaining a light amount of gap control against offensive lines, the LBs will also be asked to cover certain responsibilities based on the concept of 'Pattern Matching' (Nice writeup by a poster over on Footballsfuture -> NFL Forum :: - Pattern Matching: Secondary coverage) so fluidity in space is a must.

So let's look at the prospect Aldon Smith. He has the natural size to play this position for New England (arm length, height, and weight and frame to expand that a bit more), he has good burst off the line, and he is fantastic in space for his size.

Let's compare two different prospects for the sake of argument I'll use Quinn vs Aldon Smith. Watch these two videos before reading the next part of this;
Quinn: NFL Videos: 2011 combine workout: Robert Quinn
Smith: NFL Videos: 2011 combine workout: Aldon Smith

If you watch that video, for the supposed super athlete that Quinn is I'm not too impressed with his ability to move in space (referring to his LB drills) he doesn't move fluidly or at least nearly as good as Aldon does. Aldon seems to quickly change direction, planting his foot and accelerating quickly which I believe Belichick values. I don't think it comes naturally to Quinn, he looked very hesitant. If you combine this space fluidity with the fact that I think Aldon could bulk up to 270-275 if he played here, I think you have a great prospect for the Patriots weakside OLB.


That said, I still see us grabbing a DE and trading out of the first round so I wouldn't get your hopes up for Smith. He's a bit of a pipe dream. I wouldn't mind, as we really need a new DE. I'll write up something on that in the next 48 hours.
 
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My thoughts from the other day revisited on a clear mind:

DE is a huge need for this team, let's not act like OLB is the only need. I've read a few media outlets recently that have been pining for us to draft a premier pass rusher like Quinn (although I'm not sold he's a premier pass rusher to begin with, I'll get to that later). As I was trying to say earlier, and it came out quite convoluted: the Patriots do technically play a 3-4 but the personnel and what they're asked to do is more akin to 5-2. Meaning the Patriots OLBs act as extensions of the defensive line in the standard formation, this is directly related to Belichicks defensive philosophy of playing a hybrid of man and zone at almost all times. It's a big part of the reason that some players would flop in our defense who thrive in others. Belichick is fanatical about the concept of reading and reacting as it directly stems from his basic [football] personality. Conceptually speaking, if you understand what another team is doing in football and have players who can rapidly identify this and counteract it you will win every game. It's a big part of the reason this team has won as many games as it has. This concept is also apparent on the offensive side of the football, the Patriots the last year have made a huge switch in philosophy that I've touched on before. It's called unpredictability, they drafted offensive players who can line up all over the formation and run just about every route. Not to mention that they run out of passing sets, and pass out of running sets. It's a big part of the reason why Moss was jettisoned, he was completely predictable and had little to no diversity (and he just wasn't that good at his one thing he did anymore either). It's part of the reason I wouldn't be shocked to see Welker not resigned either, but that's another conversation entirely. The concept being that as more and more and more teams try to attack defensively and force you into making mistakes, this offense keeps the defense on their heals and allows them to dictate the flow of the game as few players, especially on defense, have the capability to read the other teams formations and use almost encyclopedic knowledge from film study to attack them correctly (for example, Tom does this on offense).

Anywho, back to the defense. Belichick understands that if you just pin your ears back and rush that you will get exposed. Like the Pats do to the Steelers every time they play. The Steelers have a great defense against teams with QBs who can't identify the zone blitzes, but once you do they are exposed. You can game plan around these aggressive blitzes. So what Belichick wants his high [football] IQ players who can read what the offense is doing and accurately do their responsibility. This includes the OLBs. The Patriots will blitz, certainly, but not like teams like the Steelers or Packers. They will frequently ask their OLBs to engage with OTs or whoever is on their side and be ready to shed that block to attack a RB or hold it to force the RB to go to sideline allowing the pursuit to arrive. Granted, if the play is headed in the other direction they are asked to quickly disengage and partake in backside pursuit (something Cunningham is very good at, he has the makings of a very good strong side OLB). Because of this the OLBs are generally hoped to have good length and strong use of handle in order to be able to engage an offensive tackle and maintain control of said situation without just getting mauled (with the way tackles are built, especially left tackles, they will absolutely abuse most OLBs if they're asked to engage them head on in gap control).

In addition to maintaining a light amount of gap control against offensive lines, the LBs will also be asked to cover certain responsibilities based on the concept of 'Pattern Matching' (Nice writeup by a poster over on Footballsfuture -> NFL Forum :: - Pattern Matching: Secondary coverage) so fluidity in space is a must.

So let's look at the prospect Aldon Smith. He has the natural size to play this position for New England (arm length, height, and weight and frame to expand that a bit more), he has good burst off the line, and he is fantastic in space for his size.

Let's compare two different prospects for the sake of argument I'll use Quinn vs Aldon Smith. Watch these two videos before reading the next part of this;
Quinn: NFL Videos: 2011 combine workout: Robert Quinn
Smith: NFL Videos: 2011 combine workout: Aldon Smith

If you watch that video, for the supposed super athlete that Quinn is I'm not too impressed with his ability to move in space (referring to his LB drills) he doesn't move fluidly or at least nearly as good as Aldon does. Aldon seems to quickly change direction, planting his foot and accelerating quickly which I believe Belichick values. I don't think it comes naturally to Quinn, he looked very hesitant. If you combine this space fluidity with the fact that I think Aldon could bulk up to 270-275 if he played here, I think you have a great prospect for the Patriots weakside OLB.


That said, I still see us grabbing a DE and trading out of the first round so I wouldn't get your hopes up for Smith. He's a bit of a pipe dream. I wouldn't mind, as we really need a new DE. I'll write up something on that in the next 48 hours.

One of the best posts I've ever read, man.

I hope you don't mind: I took the liberty of swapping in Smith's Video, which I assume was your intent.
 
One of the best posts I've ever read, man.

I hope you don't mind: I took the liberty of swapping in Smith's Video, which I assume was your intent.

Yeah, I must have not hit control c good enough. Good catch. I'll fix in my OP too.
 
@brady2welker

i'm on board with everything you said up until the part about smith being a great prospect for the pats 3-4 defense.

i think he would be better in a system like the colts. but i have serious doubts about his ability to be an effective 3-4 OLB. he's probably the biggest risk of any hybrid in this draft. although he can chase down RBs from the backside (when he wants to), a good running team will have success running right at him. i just don't think he has the strength to shrug off an nfl OL from the stand up position.

and combine video is fine. but it's really no way to fully evaluate someone.

smith certainly has a lot of the measurables but i don't feel he has the chops to succeed in the pats defense as a 3-4 OLB. now if you wanted someone who can rush the passer in sub packages, then maybe. but BB typically doesn't go for the non-versatile players. either way, he is far too risky for BB's taste.

i also have to consider that he got all of his sacks against illinois, san diego st,, kansas and kansas st. but sacks aren't the whole story. but it's worth noting that in 6 games (not including the 3 he missed due to injury) he did not record a sack.
 
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@brady2welker

i'm on board with everything you said up until the part about smith being a great prospect for the pats 3-4 defense.

i think he would be better in a system like the colts. but i have serious doubts about his ability to be an effective 3-4 OLB. he's probably the biggest risk of any hybrid in this draft. although he can chase down RBs from the backside (when he wants to), a good running team will have success running right at him. i just don't think he has the strength to shrug off an nfl OL from the stand up position.

and combine video is fine. but it's really no way to fully evaluate someone.

smith certainly has a lot of the measurables but i don't feel he has the chops to succeed in the pats defense as a 3-4 OLB. now if you wanted someone who can rush the passer in sub packages, then maybe. but BB typically doesn't go for the non-versatile players. either way, he is far too risky for BB's taste.

i also have to consider that he got all of his sacks against illinois, san diego st,, kansas and kansas st. but sacks aren't the whole story. but it's worth noting that in 6 games (not including the 3 he missed due to injury) he did not record a sack.
:woohoo: We agreed about something! (Well, not the fit for the Colts, he's not explosive enough for them, but I don't want him for NE, he's too raw to carry a first round grade for me.)
 
:woohoo: We agreed about something! (Well, not the fit for the Colts, he's not explosive enough for them, but I don't want him for NE, he's too raw to carry a first round grade for me.)

i know he's not that explosive but i didn't want to completely shatter someone's hopes for this guy.
 
pass rush is the need...and not even in terms of number of sacks.....simply more pressure to force the QB to get rid of the ball much sooner than they were forced to last year.......the reason why some say DE is that none of the DL guys the pats have right now can create the kind of pressure in the passing game that they were used to seeing with seymour.

I think the pats need to get more athletic at the RDE position......but still have the size to maintain the 2 gap DL scheme used by the pats.....both watt and jordan are better suited for the 1 gap schemes used in dallas and san diego, but will get pushed around trying to do what is needed here......hence wilkerson....big and stout and still more mobile than anyone we have here......he can push double teams into the QB and will help open things up for whoever is at OLB. if the DE can't do that, then the OLB gets exposed. as in any scheme

if you are looking for a seymour type then cam jordan is your guy, jordan's strength is as a 5-technique DE. he is a perfect fit for the pats that stress gap integrity. jordan can play anywhere on the line for 3-4 and 4-3. he is quite verstile (which BB loves).

very good at the point of attack, can take on double teams with superior technique. he can free up mayo and the OLB to make plays almost untouched. so maybe people will get off mayo's butt for not having more sacks, TFLs and INTs as he will be as free to roam as ray lewis is.
 
Heh, what are friends for? ;)

i'm trying not to rock the boat too much on my first day. i want to get to know all of the regulars and what buttons to push as well as the buttons not to push. i think i'll figure it out over time. should be fun.
 
i'm trying not to rock the boat too much on my first day. i want to get to know all of the regulars and what buttons to push as well as the buttons not to push. i think i'll figure it out over time. should be fun.
Comparing Jordan to Sey isn't rocking? :rofl:
 
i know he's not that explosive but i didn't want to completely shatter someone's hopes for this guy.

No offense, son, but I don't think there's any danger of anyone's hopes being shattered based on your eval!! ;)
 
i'm trying not to rock the boat too much on my first day. i want to get to know all of the regulars and what buttons to push as well as the buttons not to push. i think i'll figure it out over time. should be fun.

A hearty welcome, and you're wise to recognize that our little enclave is part debate society, part group therapy session. Most folks here are still grappling with a "one that got away." For Off the Grid it's Maurkice Pouncey (never mind that the Pats never had a chance at him, the heart doesn't care); Ochmed has Terrence Cody; many others of us are still suffer flashbacks to the 2009 draft where we lived through months of the Connor Barwin/Clay Matthews/Larry English wars only to see BB draft no OLB at all.
cold.gif


Anyway...FWIW, I see Aldon Smith as a fabulous athletic prospect who is nowhere close enough to a finished product to draft at #17 overall. If you think of a player's value as all of the potential skills he brings to the table X how much your team needs those X your percentage certainty that he'll deliver, the last factor drops Smith out of #17 territory.
 
A hearty welcome, and you're wise to recognize that our little enclave is part debate society, part group therapy session. Most folks here are still grappling with a "one that got away." For Off the Grid it's Maurkice Pouncey (never mind that the Pats never had a chance at him, the heart doesn't care); Ochmed has Terrence Cody; many others of us are still suffer flashbacks to the 2009 draft where we lived through months of the Connor Barwin/Clay Matthews/Larry English wars only to see BB draft no OLB at all.
cold.gif


Anyway...FWIW, I see Aldon Smith as a fabulous athletic prospect who is nowhere close enough to a finished product to draft at #17 overall. If you think of a player's value as all of the potential skills he brings to the table X how much your team needs those X your percentage certainty that he'll deliver, the last factor drops Smith out of #17 territory.

Keep in mind Larry English was the only name we didn't have an opportunity to put down on the card. ;)
 
Keep in mind Larry English was the only name we didn't have an opportunity to put down on the card. ;)

I guess I can mark you down in the "2009 flashbacks" column, then? :D
 
I guess I can mark you down in the "2009 flashbacks" column, then? :D

We can still get a highly-regarded OLB from that draft after Buffalo lets Maybin go, which should be happening sometime this summer.

I thought that Maybin was the best physical match for a Patriots OLB. Now that it doesn't cost the #11 pick in the draft, I wonder if BB would be interested in trying to mold him. He's probably still younger than some of the seniors in this draft.
 
Most mocks seem to have Smith falling beyond #17 with the Patriots passing. Should he be available at that pick, he'd be the most physically ideal 3-4 OLB to fall to us in the Belichick era. Certainly the potential is almost limitless. The questions are also there about health, stoutness and football IQ.

The question is, why or why not pick Aldon Smith?

Smith would be an excellent pick at #17. So would either of the two 3-4 DEs though.
 
We can still get a highly-regarded OLB from that draft after Buffalo lets Maybin go, which should be happening sometime this summer.

I thought that Maybin was the best physical match for a Patriots OLB. Now that it doesn't cost the #11 pick in the draft, I wonder if BB would be interested in trying to mold him. He's probably still younger than some of the seniors in this draft.

I never thought Maybing had any business getting drafted in the first round (nevermind #11 overall). You have four picks in the first two rounds so you can do alot better at OLB than Maybin.
 
I never thought Maybing had any business getting drafted in the first round (nevermind #11 overall). You have four picks in the first two rounds so you can do alot better at OLB than Maybin.

I'm not suggesting we draft him. Or suggesting anything, really. Just pointing out that a OLB of the body type BB looks for will be available for cheap on the free agent market.
 
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TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/18/24
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/18: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/16: News and Notes
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/15: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-14, Mock Draft 3.0, Gilmore, Law Rally For Bill 
Potential Patriot: Boston Globe’s Price Talks to Georgia WR McConkey
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/12: News and Notes
Not a First Round Pick? Hoge Doubles Down on Maye
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/11: News and Notes
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