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Al Queda in Iraq

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by patsfan13, Jul 5, 2007.

  1. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Report from Michael Yon. He is with the troops in Iraq, going on Patrol and not hanging around in the Green Zone.

    The links below are to an article about the US on PAtrol with Iraqi forces. They come upon a village where Al Queda has commited a massacre. Avoid the link if you have a weak stomach, There are photos of the murdered villagers including photos of a pile of childrens heads that had been severed by Al Queda.

    http://www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/bless-the-beasts-and-children.htm


    A follow up from Mike on the (rack of) reaction from the MSM. he offered his report and Photos gratis, no takers.

    Remember these are the brothers of the guys at GITMO that libs want released.
  2. Real World

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    Well, alleged brothers. No one truly knows since we haven't really had a process to explain the reasons for their individual incarcerations.


    Anyway...

    Michael Yon is top notch. He's holds nothing back, and tells it like it is, good, bad, and ugly. I'd advise anyone interested to check out Mudville, and also it's link to milblogs.

    http://mudvillegazette.com/

    http://www.mudvillegazette.com/milblogs/
  3. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They've always been there, they're Muslim Terrorists, Saddam and his Demented Sons were Muslim Terrorists, they want all us Westerners dead and they are all in bed together, Al Queda is a GANG, a Gang of Muslims.

    Do the Sore Losing Bush Haters really believe that this war will be over when we leave Iraq :rolleyes:
  4. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    It sounds like the PR campaign for "staying the course" has just ramped up a notch.

    Lets see...if we call everyone we dont like Al Qaeda, we can kill anyone indiscriminately. I say we start with BUshies. They are, after all, closer to the Bin Laden family than the rest of america.
  5. Real World

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    Do you even know who Michael Yon is? Did you even read the blog post? PR?
  6. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    Like I said....

    Patsfan may be gullible enough to buy this, but considering the NIE released last year, A-Q is a relatively small part of the enemy in Iraq.

    How do we know who to trust? Because Yon says this guy said A-Q massacred someone? How do we know it isnt Sunni tribesmen who we've begun arming?? Or who knows who else?

    You guys are just way too gullible for your own good. Oh, and it should be noted that the Bush govt has expressly stated that its limiting our GIs blogging activities, so this makes it through the filter because he is creating the image that it is, without a doubt, Al Qaeda.

    Ok. So lets assume that it is. Lets assume for the sake of argument, that our lack of preparation for post war Iraq has allowed a flood of jihadist in. Then Bush, as C-I-C, is directly responsible for opening Iraq to Al Qaeda, in addition to their strongholds in the borderlands of Afg-Pak.

    To the Bushies, this is a good thing how???
  7. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    typical pro-war crowd propaganda... you state the bolded part as fact, when actually Yon says it's what the Iraqi soldiers speculated to him... here's the caption beneath a pile of skulls picture:

    Soldiers from 5th IA said al Qaeda had cut the heads off the children. Had al Qaeda murdered the children in front of their parents? Maybe it had been the other way around: maybe they had murdered the parents in front of the children. Maybe they had forced the father to dig the graves of his children.​

    No one knows who committed the atrocities... To change the integrity of the report to suit your bidding is really embarrassing, pf13... But, we've come to expect that from you...

    AQ is a bad bunch, no one is disputing that... but let's not forget.... AQ was not in Iraq before we lured them there, en masse... No matter what flakey link you provide from National Review, AQ just wasn't there... Saddam never would have allowed it...
  8. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Al Queda
    They're not only in Iraq, they're in Michigan, waiting.
    :bricks:
  9. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    All the more reason to support a military dictatorship, right? You crazy nutty patriot you.
  10. Real World

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    Whatever. That's right, you've been reading this stuff all along.
  11. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    Now you are finally getting the BIG picture. Thanks for joining the other 70 percent.
  12. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    Agreed, Yon says what he see's good, bad or indifferent.

    Mudville is great, as is BLACKFIVE.... Yes, we should listen to the soldiers, after all IT'S THEM they are way more invested in this then our pathetic asses

    It's okay AAB, you want us to loss, we get it. We all figured that out about you a long time ago. :rolleyes:

    Sooooooooooo, they are there right now, and we are engaging them en masse. We're paying in blood every day and all you wanna do is quibble about what's already gone wrong I'll tell you a secret, WE ALREADY ALL KNOW WHAT WENT WRONG. but we're heavily engaged RIGHT NOW and nothing you, or I is gonna do about it for the next 3-6 months (until we draw down). I hope for a positive solution to a sh!tty situation. What do you hope for?

    As an aside, I'd like to hear you say ONE positive thing our troops have done over there. What's your GRAND plan for Iran (who we are GONNA have to deal with)? What would you do in Iraq? We know your full of "told ya so's". So what next, grand prognosticator.

    I'm actually really curious.
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2007
  13. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    Of that 70 percent, 40-45 % know NOTHING about Iraq, nothing about the WOT. They only know about iPods, internet games and Paris Hilton. All they know about Iraq is that "we ain't winning". Count them like you count sheep. If you tell them tomorrow we are winning, they'll swing the other way.

    p.s. The war changes daily, so try using news that a little fresher than 9 months to justify your position ;)
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2007
  14. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    I thought we won already. Mission accomplished, remember?:bricks:

    BTW...how do you win an occupation? seriously, black and white, winning or losing? Why do people like you always ignore the complexities of international conflict? Like millions of Iraqi refugees, hundreds of thousands dead, Al Qaeda and international terrorism being fueled like never before. Did you miss the NIE too?

    I must say, for someone who talks a talk, You must have different numbers then the US military itself which now states it could be 10 YEARS before we see progress in this counterinsurgency.

    You think the sheep have stomach for that? Thats 520 weeks at 2 billion/week at the current rate.

    Oh, did you miss that news bit too? hmmmm...very odd.
  15. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    what war changes daily? Afghanistan or the occupation of Iraq?

    April May and June was among the deadliest months for US forces in Iraq since the occupation began. Just as people predicted who were against the surge from the outset. Um, you want to debate that point?

    and, based on all the news you have slept through these past few years, maybe you need to get tuned in to something other than Fox.
  16. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    No, the sheep do not (nor do I). The Iraqis don't give a screw about freedom. But again................. we got in, we got to get out. How do we get out. Not by pulling up stakes. To tell you the truth. I don't know what the best solution is............... only that it ain't losing. I'm looking down the road at the NEXT war (it's coming). I hate to break it to you, but you don't have these answers either. That's why it's imperative we select leaders and people that DO.

    How do you win an insurgency............. You starve it.


    by the way..... I don't really feel you wanna lose, but sometimes you come very close to sounding that way.
  17. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    Ummmmmm, so were the people who were FOR the surge.

    When you actually engage the ememy, casualties go UP. EVERYONE knew they were going to and we've actually posted several times on the topic. Where were you.

    Look, I ain't saying we're winning........... but I'm not saying we're losing either. Truth is. I DON'T KNOW, and NEITHER DO YOU with your little website stats.

    No-one knows what the long term ramifications of this conflict are, because they ARE VERY MUCH STILL BEING CONDUCTED. We'll be able to debate it better in 5 years.

    It's not cheerleading to want your side to win. You do know that RIGHT?

    Oh Yeah, hears a decent site for conflict news: The Fourth Rail.
  18. mr3putt

    mr3putt Rookie

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    So a stalemate with a high loss of life with NO demonstrable positive impact is fine with you...because you and your Administration has not the brains to back off to adjacent friendly nations and stage operations from there.....

    F'n brilliant...tell me PFAN how will you f'up the next war?

    No wisdom forthcoming.....
  19. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    Adjacent Friendly Nations.


    You were 100% right..............There was no wisdom forthcoming. :rolleyes:
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2007
  20. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    i hope you'll stop asserting what you think i feel and what you think i want, for starters... you may already know what went wrong, but you and your ilk certainly accept no blame or shame.... it's like sucker punching some kid at recess, and then looking around wondering why your classmates won't help you out...

    are you gonna provide your own "solution" once i do? or are you gonna do nothing but sit there and get personal and piss all over what you feel is wrong with my own ideas?

    for now: there is no positive solution in Iraq... what could possibly be positive at this point?... we fostered a civil war that we can't control.... it's unwinnable... the "positive solution" was in Afghanistan in late 2001... the "positive solution" remains in Pakistan, and in sanctions against Saudi Arabia... but we can't have that, of course... they own 8% of America...

    we get out... save lives, save billions... chalk it up for what it is: the greatest foreign policy disaster in U.S. history... learn from it, never allow it to happen again, and stop pretending every angry arab with oil under his feet is some enemy we must "kill or capture"...

    but of course, the Limbaugh crowd wants to call that "surrender"... tell us, what train car in Iraq will we be signing surrender declaration papers and handing over our pistol to the great al Qaeda generals?... so overdramatic...

    it's no surrender... we didn't lose... we tried our best (albeit profoundly misguided and largely corrupt in intention), we found it unworkable, unsustainable and terribly wasteful ...

    Cronkite: "To say that we are mired in stalemate seems the only realistic, yet unsatisfactory, conclusion ... the only rational way out then will be to negotiate, not as victors, but as an honourable people who lived up to their pledge to defend democracy (expand capitalism) and did the best they could."
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2007
  21. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Michael Yon seems to be a good photographer, but just to link this to Al Quaeda without substantiation seems a bit weak. Prior to our invasion Al Quaeda was not a consideration in Iraq, however we were told of their plans to invade us and harm our way of life by this nation of the Axis of Evil. Every time there is an act of violence in Iraq then it = Al Quaeda.. to connect the dots without verification perpetuates this myth. This may or may not be an act of them, do we really know, do they leave a callling card.

    BTW this stuff happens in all wars, and is a by product, war is not nice and although many men loose their lives the people effected most are the women and children.. to deny it is to deny the basic evil which is war. The problem is war, the more difficult path, peace is the answer.
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2007
  22. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    Actually NO, that's what intolerant haters do. I respect the fact that you would state what you think would be a solution. Many of your ilk would not.

    ..... and further, There are parts of it I could agree with in addition to the some that I disagree with. I'll elaborate more later (if you care to listen), but for now I am short on time.

    I appreciate the response though (no BS).
  23. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    That was my basic point, of course. The PR campaign to label every insurgent Al-Qaeda is another example of the continued manipulation of the american public by this administration. And Im aware that it happens in all wars- propaganda, that is. Problem for these criminals is that they have ZERO credibility left with the masses of thinking americans.

    I could be wrong and the peeps may come around, but given the length of this to date and the accelerated pace of the resistance....I highly doubt it.

    I am sorry that the Republican leadership has proven to be so lame when it comes to contingency planning. Time to give the Dems a chance to figure it out.
  24. Real World

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    You don't understand. AAB thinks we should run a country, and set policy according to poll numbers.
  25. Real World

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    Now, if you had a clue, you'd understand why they were 3 of the more deadly months. The problem is, people like you don't even know, talk about, or understand why.

    Obviously when you increase force size, and fight in an urban setting as the surge is designed to do, you are going to take more casualties. IT's good to see you're still hoping for the best possible result for both our country, and western civilization.
  26. mr3putt

    mr3putt Rookie

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    Jordan...Qatar...And the UAE have all offered to serve as bases.

    I guess Rush failed to inform you..:rolleyes:
  27. Real World

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    How is there not a demonstrable positive impact from what is currently going on there? They only reached target force size in June. Have you seen what's gone on in Al-Anbar? Plus, this isn't for instant gratification. As I've tried to explain in here before, this is in part, a transition strategy aimed to pacify the handover to the ISF. The Iraqi's can't stand on their own right now, and if you redeployed to neighboring nations, the government would more than likely fail. They are moving toward being able to hold on their own. Either way, they will require US support to backbone the current government. That's why no one, not even one of the anti-war candidates, will completely withdraw if they win in 2008. They know they can't do that. There will have to be a 50k+ force that remains for some time.
  28. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We won the war in Iraq the day they hung Saddam by his greasy smelly neck until he was dead, we won when we killed his two demented butchering sons.

    Now, we are not at war with Iraq, we are at war with the SAVAGE MURDERING SIDE OF ISLAM, we are at war with MUSLIM FANATIC TERRORISTS they are all in it together, we are at war with their stinking religion that tells them if they kill enough of us there are a bunch of Whores waiting for them in their heaven.

    They are all over the world and we are at war with them, like it or not, there will be many more attacks by their smelly Doctors and by their smelly murdering morons.

    What will the Bush Hating Democrats do if they are elected and all the "health care moonbats" realize that we stopped fighting but the Muslims didn't, what will the likes of Pant Suit Hillary or the Politically Correct Poster Boy Obama do if the Muslims come to Washington with their little nukes and try to kill them and the rest of the Auntie Pelosi gang?

    GET BUSH, thats what the anti war people are really after.

    GOD IS GREAT
    DEATH TO AMERICA
  29. DarrylS

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    Did you know you just hit another milestone on this board, 7513 posts now you are a veteran started with an all pro contract.. kinda like Christmas Cove in July.
  30. mr3putt

    mr3putt Rookie

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    I have heard no diffinitive statements from our commanders indicating Iraqi progress toward autonomy. I have every confidence that once left to their own governance they will steal/sell and destroy anything of value in Iraq.

    Most of those we wished to save have already left the country out of fear.
    Those that are left...the poor...the weak....the silly...ARE DOOMED.

    And in those immortal words uttered by Richard Nixon in a mens room to Hunter S Thompson........

    "F" the DOOMED.

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