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Agent Tom Condon

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by aabtec, Feb 8, 2011.

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  1. aabtec

    aabtec Rookie

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    I have read on more that one draft site that the Pats will not deal with Condon after the ben Watson fiasco. The Pats blame Condon for the change in contract length for 1st rd draft choices.

    Thoughts???
  2. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He will make his client hold out if that's what it takes to get what he wants. Even if there's a rookie wage scale that limits a rookie's contract to a certain amount of money over a certain number of years, he's going to get every last penny of guaranteed money that he can. If the Pats to go against recent history and draft a guy like JJ Watt, expect a holdout.
  3. billdog3484

    billdog3484 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    i seriously doubt we wouldnt take a kid we like based on his agent. i guess its possible, but i doubt it.

    i know there are probably some out there who believe there are guys we didnt take because of that, but i dont think there is definitive proof on that matter. if so, id be glad to see it.
  4. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

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    Ive been following this trend since 2004 and even started threads about it before each draft, and it still has held true. I don't think it's a coincidence, but I would love for someone to ask Watson about his thoughts on the subject.
  5. patsfanboy

    patsfanboy Rookie

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    I don't think it is that much of a big deal, the pats can always contact the player and tell him to change agent, if he wants to player he will do it.
  6. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    The player interview complicates the analysis.

    "Are you definitely staying with Tom Condon?" "I think so." "Oh, too bad. Well, the time's blocked out on the schedule, so let's finish the interview anyway."
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2011
  7. MaineMan

    MaineMan Rookie

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    As someone pointed out in another thread, the Watson debacle occurred on Pioli's watch. If the problem was mostly between Pioli and Condon and we simply haven't had occasion to cross paths with Condon since Pioli left (becuase we just had no interest in who Condon was repping), maybe it wouldn't be an issue anymore.

    I guess we'd have to go back through the drafts since Watson - see who Condon was repping and whether we drafted similar players who were repped by someone else (maybe indicating that we were still avoiding Condon). We'd also have to do the same for KC's past two drafts to see if Pioli has been avoiding Condon. Maybe Dimitroff's drafts for ATL as well.

    Any takers to do this homework?
  8. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    I doubt very much that Belichick would not draft the player he wanted to draft due to his representation. This is a business, and there's not much room for letting personal feelings get in the way of best business. BB recognizes Condon (and the Postons) is doing his job, just as Condon realizes BB is doing his.
  9. MaineMan

    MaineMan Rookie

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    I'd think this was the overriding principle, yes. At the same time, though, I think BB would try to avoid putting his FO guys in a bind by picking a rookie whose rep would be likely to make outrageous demands and have the player hold-out through OTAs, camp, etc. I mean, I'm sure there are agents who drive a hard bargain but still find a way to get their clients to show up for work during negotiations. And then there are guys who will have their clients hold-out till West Texas freezes over no matter what and who will make a disproportionate stink over every detail.

    Also, I don't think there are any rules preventing a team from informally "pre-negotiating" with a player's agent before the actual pick is made, are there? I mean, along the lines of ...

    BB tells his FO, "Hey, I really like both Watt and Heyward, but I prefer Watt. I know we've had trouble with Condon in the past. How much trouble will he cause us if I take Watt?"

    Then, the FO goes to Condon to ask "What kind of number range are we looking at if we pick your kid?"

    Condon responds in a way that seems flexible and within reason, OR Condon responds with "We want 83 gazillion $$ with $80 gazillion up front and not a penny less or we hold out the entire season if necessary." In the second case, I can see BB saying, "Well, then, screw Condon. I'll just take Heyward."
  10. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

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    Did anyone notice that since Watson was selected in the first round the Patriots decided to draft players starting with the first name M (the opposite of W)? :eek: Am I going too far with this? :D
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2011
  11. MaineMan

    MaineMan Rookie

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    So, you're saying that there's TWO reasons why we wouldn't take Watt? ;)
  12. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

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    The world may implode on itself if we did
  13. anotherbruschi

    anotherbruschi Rookie

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    The issue with Ben Watson / Condon ws not $$$, it was the length of the contract. The Patriots played hardball and insisted that an extra year be added to the initial contract.

    Condon balked at this and Watson did not sign until he changed agents.
  14. FredFromDartmouth

    FredFromDartmouth Rookie

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    Is there a list of his Condon's clients yet? Combine that with the binky list and we will have a pretty clear idea of who the Patriots will not take.
  15. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    JJ Watt and Aaron Williams are two guys I've seen mentioned.

    Aldon Smith is with Dogra, also of CAA, but not Condon himself.
  16. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Just to bump this.

    Ian Rappaport tweeted yesterday that the Patriots have, indeed, stayed away from Condon Clients. Both in Free Agency and in the Draft.

    Take it for what it's worth.
  17. NEGoldenAge

    NEGoldenAge Banned

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    On the surface, it would appear that BB would never exclude all of an agent's players because it would make the pool of players NE had access to smaller thant that of all the other teams... essentially a self-created disadvantage.

    Looking a little deeper, such a tactic could be the product of a larger, more foreward thinking business stategy/philosophy that sends a message to agents and players.

    I take a more middle of the road view, that a player's agent is part of the equation when BB is looking at the value of the player as a whole. There are trends in the types of players that choose certain agents. I suspect a very low agent grade combined with flashy players that are seeking top dollar could account for a 6+ year drought.
  18. MaineMan

    MaineMan Rookie

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    It's possible that it only appears that way. It may be that the players Condon has repped in the drafts since (generally limited to 1st and 2nd rounders, AFAIK).were guys that the Pats wouldn't have taken anyway. Same with FAs.

    In order to have a better (though still inconclusive) handle on this, we'd need to start with a list of all the players Condon has repped since Watson. Then, we'd need to compare that to a list of Pats signings since then to see if the Pats signed a player similar to (and maybe lesser than) one that Condon repped at that time. Might want to include the client lists of Dogra and other CAA agents as well.

    Eugene Parker (of Michael Crabtree infamy) might be another agent to examine along these lines.
  19. patsfanboy

    patsfanboy Rookie

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    I hope that we either swallow our pride or dont be cheap and traded up the draft for a great dl orh olb.
  20. bucky

    bucky Rookie

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    Considering (a) the Pats eventually got their way in the Watson negotiation, (b) Condon is pretty powerful agent with probably more high-profile clients that any other agent, (c) The Pats have had to deal with worse (like Potson), and (d) the coming rookie wage scale, I would not think that Condon would be a limiting factor if the Pats really wanted a player. On the other hand, if they have 2 guys they like about the same, then maybe the agent factor could affect the decision.
  21. FredFromDartmouth

    FredFromDartmouth Rookie

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    I wonder why rooks even need agents with the wage scale. Why let some blood-sucker weasel you out of part of your salary? I am sure the agents are trying to dream up reasons for their very existence right now but teams such as the Patriots should offer the rooks more if they don't have an agent or some clever ambulance chaser should provide a discount service for rooks working in the scale.
  22. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Here's a great example of how hard-headed Condon is. He represents Peyton Manning. The Colts supposedly made him an offer higher than Brady's. Going into an offseason of doom and gloom, that offer was rejected. How can anybody turn that down with how the league is looking right now?
  23. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Manning's franchise number is over $23 million. Given that, Condon can turn down pretty much anything.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2011
  24. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Probably the stance he's taking. But he's going to look like an idiot if Manning gets hurt, just like Bauer would've had Mankins gotten hurt this past season.
  25. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm quite sure that Manning will be making the final call on anything like that, not Condon.
  26. cavtroop

    cavtroop Rookie

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    this may be a causation/correlation thing - in that the Pats may not be actively staying away from Condon, but are actively staying away from the types of players that would choose him as an agent.

    In other words, players who choose Condon are more likely to be motivated by money than other things that are more important to the Patriots, like love of the game, etc.
  27. Underdog

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    All I know is I would rather they draft 100 Tom Condon clients than ever take another Frank Bauer client.
  28. bucky

    bucky Rookie

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    As BB would say, it is what it is. What are the Colts going to do? Tell Manning to get another agent or he's gone?
  29. MaineMan

    MaineMan Rookie

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    So my hypothesis is that it's possible that the prospects Condon has represented in the drafts since the Watson fiasco may have been players who the Pats wouldn't have selected anyway (or were taken well before the Pats picked) - thus making the apparent "avoidance" of Condon's clients potentially mere coincidence.

    Having a difficult time finding any list of Condon's draft prospect clients beyond the "big names over the years" thing.

    For this draft, CAA (including Dogra and others, as well as Condon himself) is repping:

    AJ Green
    Blaine Gabbert
    Aldon Smith
    Anthony Castonzo
    Aaron Williams *
    JJ Watt *
    Marcus Cannon
    Mark Herzlich

    * known Condon clients

    I keep plugging away trying to find CAA/Condon client lists from previous drafts as time allows.

    BTW - CAA has repped the #1 overall pick in 6 of the last seven drafts - the notable exception being Jamarcus Russell in 2007.
  30. MaineMan

    MaineMan Rookie

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    2010 Draft 1st rounders for CAA:

    Bradford #1 (Condon himself)
    McCoy #3
    Derrick Morgan #16
    Jermaine Gresham #21
    Bryan Bulaga #23
    Jerry Hughes #31
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