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After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Peyton

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  1. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    After watching what I thought was the best performance in Manning's career against the Vikings on sunday I don't think the Colts would have the luxury of being able to play well and overcoming the loss of Peyton because I think the Indy defense is just not as good as New England's

    Peyton was beat up,mangled and dodging Viking's defensive backs and linemen all game but got up,dusted himself off and directed drives to be able to put Indy in position to win that game after not getting much help and trailing 15-0 into the 3rd quarter.

    While the defense had a few takeovers to help the Colts win, I think if Sorgi was in there it simply would have been way too much to overcome.

    While I am not saying this season will be successful right now because Cassel is still very raw and the team is untested against better teams,I still think this team should be able to consistently put a solid defense on the field to keep New England within reach of most games while I just think the Indy defense would be overwhelmed with trying to keep the Colts offense with Sorgi in command in the same position.

    I think this season answers the question that the Colts would be destroyed without Peyton - The Patriots are hurting but still able to play well so far despite the fact that it was 2 scrub teams they beat

    Even though I can't stand the guy as a player,I gained respect for Manning after what he said with class regarding Brady and I was even more impressed how he practically took victory from the hands of defeat on sunday almost as if it was a one man show on offense - it was masterful and so Brady-Like,its amazing how Brady and Manning are so similar and special in a sport today which lacks QBs with the Balls to do stuff like this consistently and great.

    Without Brady the Patriots could still win 10 games
    Without Manning the Colts would be picking in the top 10 in the draft
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  2. Cartwright

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    It's a double edge sword, isn't it. We feel Manning is the greatest, but we like to feel our team can perform as well. In the end though, I think this team does have a tougher time winning w/o PM than NE does w/o TB.

    We must note that Lilja and Saturday were out. Projected rookie starter Pollak were all out on the O-Line. Ugoh is becoming a chronically injured LT, but he went out 2nd quarter. Clark out. Of course, the D-Line up the middle is laughable, but that has nothing to do with Sorgi/PM, other than it would be harder to call upon them to 'stuff the run' with any consistency. With a fully healthy 'other' 21, I still think we compete, but a fully healthy 'other' 21 for the Pats most likely win more games. Flip our schedules this season, and I wouldn't agree.
  3. Rob0729

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    Right now, I am not convinced the Colts are going to win 10 games with Peyton. They have a lot of problems all over the place.

    Joseph Addai hasn't had a 100 yard rushing game since he played the Pats the first week of November last year (in fact, his best rushing effort since then was 72 yards and a TD against KC). Yet, people talk about the guy's consistency eventhough he has been the antithesis of consistent since he entered the league. He is a stud for half the season and a dud for the other half.

    Their run defense is as bad or worse than it was in 2006. The DT poisition is going to be a huge problem for them going on in the season. They are just too small handle bigger backs. I personally expect the Pats to use a lot of Morris and Jordan on them when they meet in November.

    Their o-line have some major issues especially up the middle. Teams being able to rush up the middle on a pocket passer like Manning is poison to him.

    I think in other years, the Colts would be more equiped to weather the storm without Manning. Although I don't think there was a single year where their entire team wasn't build all around him. Now that their top heavy salary cap has destroyed their depth at a lot of positions, I think they would be a 3-13 team without Manning.

    The Patriots make Brady the center point. But since they do not make their salary cap top heavy like the Colts, they are far better equipped to weather the loss. They have depth at most positions and solid players throughout.
  4. Cartwright

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    Colts have as much talent as they have ever had in PM's career. The weakest link on D is the interior D Line. Ed Johnson didn't help that out. I think a healthy Booger and Big Ed would have rounded out the D quite nicely. As it were, yeah, it's going to be a tough go stopping the run for the Colts. They were 12-4 not stopping the run 2 years ago. If the O-Line gets shored up, and Manning gets some mobility back, they should be fine.
  5. KontradictioN

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    And yet, you guys that are saying this would go into another thread in an instant and the say that the superior talent around Manning is the reason why he wins games.
  6. lamafist

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    I'm seriously confused by all the praise Manning is getting for the Colts' comeback win in Minnesota.

    I know the line was banged up, I know that the running game wasn't doing much, but seriously -- the Colts had thirteen drives against a Vikings team whose secondary got carved up all last year, and again last week, by a QB making his first NFL start, and what was the result? Two decent TD drives. That's really it.

    In the first half, the Colts picked up more than 1 first down and more than 20 yards in exactly ONE drive, and the poor field position this caused led to many of Minnesota's points. After starting the 2nd half with another 4 play drive, the Colts finally were able to take advantage of Minnesota's blown coverage, and got to the goal line with one big play.

    So far, have we seen anything that Sorgi couldn't do? Nope. So what does Manning do next? Fail to significantly advance the ball when their defense gives it to them at the Minnesota 28. So far, is there anything to praise Manning for other than one fluke play?

    How 'bout what could have been a game-clinching INT in the 4th if the Vikings could capitalize? Could Sorgi not have done that?

    Finally, we get to Manning's one good drive, going 60 yards in 3 plays. Vintage Manning -- but the only time he looked at all impressive all game, considering that the big play that one them the game was Tim Jenning's balletic downing of the ball on the 1 in punt coverage. The defense again was stiff, and got the Colts offense the ball at midfield.

    Sorry, exactly where was all of this Manning greatness? Where was this "willing his team to win" that I've heard pundits talking about? What I saw was a defense that, in the 2nd half, adjusted to the fact that the Vikings have no passing game to speak of, and kept the Vikings from putting the game out of reach long enough for the Colts offense to show a few signs of life against a just-adequate secondary.
  7. SVN

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    everyone had bad games. safe to say whatver adjustment the colts made on defense, the could not have won without manning and childress on the other side.
  8. SVN

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    people talk about colts D all the time. They were never good except last yr. Colts are always an offensive team which can play from ahead. once manning gets in sync and resolves the o line issues and they get back saturday and clark they will just fine. We dont want to accept it but that is most likely to happen in my opinion. if this were the 10th week of the season with this kind of play then colts should be worried. colts also a bye early-same week as us - so they will get together and sort all this out. their defense will be just adequate enough. their offense will pick up again .
  9. ScottieC

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    Everyone has bad games, agreed. The Colts just had two in a row.
  10. lamafist

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    Well, they certainly needed SOMEONE at QB. I'm just not sure that ONLY manning could lead one prolonged scoring drive all game against the Vikings.
  11. NEPatriot

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    Viking QB is a problem. You can't win the game if you kicked field goal 5 times. Even with Peyton, colts barely won that game.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  12. Rob0729

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    I agree with this, but many comebacks in general. I never got why Romo got so much praise for coming back after throwing five picks against the Bills last year too. The only reason why the Colts were in position to come back on Sunday because the Vikes didn't take advantage of their opportunities when they had them. They scored 5 time and not one TD because of conservative and predictable play calling.

    I give Manning a lot of credit for pulling the game out, but he should have never been in that position to begin with but was lucky that the Vikings played not to lose rather to win on offense.
  13. SVN

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    iam sure you have heard of the childress "kickass offense". There is a site dedicated to it. Kick Ass Offense | Minnesota Vikings News
    somehow i cant dislike this guy enough. he is worse than herm in my opinion.
  14. Deus Irae

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    The Colts won because Tavaris Jackson sucks and can't even parlay his team's amazing running game into points by just not screwing up, not because Manning did anything particularly impressive.

    Matt Cassel, the man so many here were deriding this summer, would have won that Colts/Vikings game had he played for either side, and he's a backup being pressed into service.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  15. lamafist

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    Agreed.

    I'm sure Brady's gotten a disproportionate amount of credit for some of the Pats' 4th quarter comebacks.

    And if you want to talk about a comeback that Manning deserves all the credit in the world for, there's the 2006 AFCCG. I don't think any other QB pulls that one off.
  16. Rob0729

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    Two different arguments. Manning's career stats are so much better than Brady's because of the skill position players on offense around him. I don't think there has been many years where the Colts have been a complete team though. Definitely not this year so far. Guys like Wayne, Harrison, Clark, Edge, Stokely, etc. has allowed Manning to get unworldly number, but Manning would still be one of the greatest QBs of all time with far lesser talent. He just wouldn't be on pace to break all the QB records.

    That said, I don't think that this team would survive without Manning right now as it is built. Previous years they might have been able to have an outside shot at the playoffs and others they would collapse just as bad. The Colts' defense has not been consistently good and Manning has had to win a lot of shootouts over the years. A lesser QB couldn't do that.
  17. Rob0729

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    The Colts don't have the depth though. They are thin in a lot of spots on defense especially DT and LB.

    If the Colts can fix their offense, they can win games without stopping the run although going 12-4 with one of the worst run defenses of all time in two different years may be a little too much to ask. But right now the Colts are too one dimensional on offense because they can't run the ball. And that one dimension has only looked good in one quarter in two games.
  18. PATRIOTSFANINPA

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    Disagree , You would need Cassel along WITH the Patriots offensive coaching staff for Matt to be successful - He would have done nothing with that poor coaching over in Minny
  19. Rob0729

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    I agree. It wasn't Tavaris Jackson who called the same three or four plays over and over again. Apparently the Vikes' playbook is an one sheeter. Run Peterson right, run Peterson up the middle, Roll out Jackson right. That was basically all the plays they called all game except for a few exceptions. And it took the Colts like three quarters to figure it out.
  20. Cartwright

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    You are severly discounting what a run game and time to throw can do for your offense. You forget about the SB already? 311 yards with about 2 seconds to throw is absolutely vintage.
  21. Deus Irae

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    The difference is that Cassel would have completed the pass, unlike Tavaris "64.8 rating, 50.5 completion %" Jackson.
  22. SVN

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    well..hypothetically, cassel wont be in that situation because our coaching staff would've called more creative plays. honestly - childress 2 yrs ago claimed this was a "kick ass" offense system. claimed a lot of responsibility of developing mcnabb. said jackson is a 'clay he can mould' or something when they traded up 3rd rounders to pick him in the 2nd round and not yet developed the QB let alone be creative with the offense,slants,posts with berrian ..nothing. if peterson was just good instead of great , vikings would not even get that amount of rushing yards. the poor kid is just running through tackles just because of his ability. i posted this earlier but check this out again for a vikings fan perspective of their offense and their QB

    An Open Letter to BradChildress - Daily Norseman
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  23. Lampshade

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    Totally agree.

    Peyton is a flipping awesome QB, but there's a trend to overpraise any performance from him that is less than perfect. It's the sort of thing journalists do to assure themselves they are seeing far more than the casual fan.
  24. Deus Irae

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    Don't get me wrong..... I think Childress is a terrible coach and, as amazing as this may sound, a downgrade from the prior meathead at the Viking helm. It's just astonishing to watch Jackson miss on throws that high school quarterbacks complete about 90% of the time. That Vikings team might just be better off with Chester Taylor at quarterback.
  25. lamafist

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    Nobody gets much of a running game going vs. the Vikings. That's why, the last time the Pats played them, they didn't even bother trying to run the ball vs. them -- they spread them out with 4 or 5 wide, located the favorable match-ups, and chipped away at them underneath most of the game.

    This Viking defense has never been tough to pass on, and though the line wasn't giving Manning a ton of time, the Viking's pressure schemes are predictable enough that it doesn't take a 2-time MVP to adjust.

    Oh, and don't give me yardage totals, and act like that means something outside of you fantasy league.
  26. coltsfan09

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe


    i have to disagree. Favre and Cassel are still getting acostumed to the new
    system. Chargers struggled their first few games with Turner. The real football starts around week 4-5. The Pats vs. the Jets was not a blowout, plus its only 1 game. First few games are always a struggle.
  27. Return of the Nizz

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    Peterson was carving up that pathetic D until Mathis gave him that massive cheap shot on his knee. He came up limping and wasn't the same the rest of the game. I can't believe I haven't heard anything about that play, AP is downfield and engaged with a DB and Mathis comes up from behind and specifically targets the knee, one of the dirtiest plays I've ever seen. I thought maybe the Colts had put Polian in at DL for a minute.
  28. Cartwright

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    Save it. TB had more time against the Giants, and he got slaughtered. Schemes, adjustments, whatever. Allen, the Williams brothers, and EJ are a tough unti to contain for most starting units, let alone 4 backups.
  29. SVN

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    true but childress is the one who is persisting with him because of his ego. now of course he is flipflopping.check this out
    The National Football Post | National Football Post Diner News

    wtf is that ? and people say BB is cryptic.
  30. Deus Irae

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    Re: After sundays game,its apparent more than ever that the Colts couldn't win w/o Pe

    BB is cryptic. Childress is incompetent. I'll take cryptic, every time.
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