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Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by cstjohn17, Dec 18, 2007.

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  1. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    That time of year, pick a player.

    Make your case, describe:
    • Height, Weight, Estimated 40 time, School
    • Where there is value in drafting the player (example between picks 3-7 or picks 40- 50, etc.)
    • Fit in Patriots system
    • Other reasons why the Patriots would consider the player (future cap hits, position need, lack of depth)
    • Are the expected to start, backup, play special teams
    • Career potential - starter, quality backup, pro bowl, etc.
    • Player he reminds you off (e.g. young Willie Mac)
     
  2. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Vernon Gholston
    6"4 260lbs 4.6 seconds Ohio State University
    Top 15
    Outside linebacker in the 3-4 and 4-3 DE. Hes fast, very strong and gets to the QB.
    We need to start getting younger and his combo of speed/strength/size will be very valued in this draft. Colvin is an FA, Vrabel is getting older. Get some young blood

    Expected to start year 1 if Colvin is gone
    Potential: Pro Bowler multi times
    Reminds me of: DeMarcus Ware. He wasnt the fastest but he ran a great time for a man his size and he was 1 of the strongest players @ the combine. They will play same spots in a 3-4 and have experience dropping back to add to their pass rushing and run stopping.
     
  3. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    Well done! I was going to take Gholston, no fair, I had to run to the post office to get some last minute cards in the mail.

    Nice job, in my dream scenario the Patriots sign Dansby and draft Gholston. This would give them a dominant front seven taking some pressure off the secondary which is likely to get a lot younger in 2008.

    Look at this front seven
    RDE - Seymour, Green
    NT - Wilfork, Wright (assumed he is retained)
    LDE - Warren, Smith, Thomas

    OLB - Colvin, Woods
    ILB - Dansby, Alexander
    ILB - Thomas, << draft pick - young and fast>>, Lua
    OLB - Vrabel, Gholston

    Secondary (a lot of new faces)
    RCB - Hobbs, Willie Andrews (my sleeper pick)
    SS - Harrison, Mitchell (re-signed)
    FS - Sanders, Merriweather
    LCB - Day 1 draft pick, Richardson, Veteran FA maybe Chad Scott
     
  4. sebman2112

    sebman2112 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Colvin's under contract for 2008. He's only gone if NE can't rework, or extend his contract, which I expect they'll be able to.

    I'd take Quentin Groves in a trade down, instead of Gholston (with a top 5 pick), who's thick, raw, and seems more like a 4-3 DE. Maybe if NE could trade down and still pickup Gholston I'd do it, but I don't think he'll be a year one starter in NE's system, as I think he's somewhat raw, and lacks polish. I'll tell you for sure after the combine though.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2007
  5. Crazyeechrispats1

    Crazyeechrispats1 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Karlos Dansby is a pipe dream Arizona will not let him go anywhere either by resigning him or slapping him with the tag.

    My dream draft scenario and if goodell would of never snatched our draft pick is drafting James lauranitis then trading back up in the draft using one or both of our third round picks to snatch gholston in the late first or early second.

    Our best bet is that he runs a unusually slow 40 time from injury or some type of let down cause this kid can play and i'm sure our scouts will know that.
    Also I haven't completely let go of the idea of welcoming Lance Briggs into the fold.
    He said he doesn't wanna play in a 3-4 supposedly but our defense is much more diverse then that.
     
  6. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    I said Dansby was in my 'dream' scenario, adding Dansby and Gholston would be insane. As far as Briggs, it is interesting he dissed the 3-4 but apparently was willing to sign with SF, SF runs a 3-4, money talks... I don't see any realistic possibility that any top end defensive player is signed (Samuel, Suggs, Dansby, Briggs, etc.). A sleeper is Tommy Kelly from the Raiders, I know we are deep at D Line but he fits the 3-4 and BB likes him.

    In response to Sebs, Gholston is about the same size as Vrabel, a little shorter but a lot faster. The OLB in the Pats scheme mostly jam TEs and cover the flat, Gholston seems athetic enough to do that. If the comparisons to Ware, Merriman are even close then he is worth a serious look. As far as Groves, he will break your heart, he looks big, strong and will have a killer 40 time but he is a dog, no interest in playing the run and once he gets paid will be nothing but disappointment. Maybe I am wrong but he is very high on my DOG meter.
     
  7. Crazyeechrispats1

    Crazyeechrispats1 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Well John it could happen I could see BB being extremely aggressive if Bruschi, Seau retire .
    Also and if Colvin leaves due to a failure to restructure cause we all believe he will be asked to do so.
    I could see BB using draft picks to land a linebacker or two that he feels is fluent or can be taught how to operate his system.
    It's very slim but we could still be looking at Jason Taylor or how sweet would it be if we could land both Taylor and Thomas.
    One guy I see who will more than likely be available and believe he has a little something left in the tank is Keith Brooking.
    Atlanta is going into that youth movement and may just cut him out right for a chance to land on a team as a favor to him.
    This is exactly the kind of guy that New England usually scores big with, savy veteran who people say has nothing left signs with New England to be a part of what we've done in the past 7 years.
    As far as db's I can't see BB resigning Assante to a kings ransom.
    He's been a top 5 corner the last 2 seasons But I remember when he was battling injuries jumping to many routes the guy was a 4th round pick who was coached incredibly well by BB and co to become the player that he is.
    He has soft hands yes but his speed won't wow anybody doesn't win jump ball battles and sometimes whiffs on tackles for going for the highlight shot instead of a good solid wrap up.
    Anybody been scouting any nickel or dime backs that will hit free agency that could have a impact with increase in playing time and or better coaching.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2007
  8. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    I adopt James Laurinaitis

    I didn't want to take him because it is too obvious but he needs a good home.

    James Laurinaitis, The Ohio State University
    6'3, 245 , 4.60 40
    Top 12 - LBs are usually over hyped and under valued in the draft process
    Fit - based on his athleticism and pedigree I would expect him to compete for the starting position next to Thomas at ILB, unless a top tier vet is signed he would be competing for work in a rotation with a (yet to be named) mid-tier vet
    - will struggle fighting off blocks at the pro level, will have to use his speed and instincts to make plays, may end up playing 2nd and 3rd and all passing downs in year 1 until he gains more bulk and technique
    - will immediately improve pass coverage and overall speed of the defense, the Patriots rely on their DEs and OLBs to funnel plays make to the ILBs, improved speed on the inside should improve the overall defense
    Why - obvious weakness of team with strong likelihood that both ILBs retire, Laurinaitis is a leader and has great college experience from a top program and is a rare LB that may be physical enough and smart enough to play ILB for the Patriots
    Career potential - Solid Starter or better, outside shot of probowls
    Reminds you of - A taller faster AJ Hawk, AJ appears to be a little more stout but JL is more fluid and perhaps a better overall athlete
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2007
  9. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    Taylor would be sweet but unless he is cut by Miami I don't see it happening. Brookings is very interesting, if he is cut he may be a possibility although he has very little experience in the 3-4. We will all be keeping our eye on the LB position when FA starts, I suspect that we will be under whelmed by the players the Patriots sign but by the end of the year a solid player should emerge (please no more Beisel).

    As far as Samuel, he has been my binkie for quite a while, and I am not letting go now. After the 2005 season I thought they should have locked him up, he was coming off a so-so year and could have been signed cheap. His 2006 season was one of the all time best seasons for CB, 10 picks plus 2 picks for TDs in the playoffs. He has improved this year (as with every year) he has become even more of a leader in the secondary. In some cases he seems to be playing down to the QB he faces (Boller, Pennington) and tries for the big pick but.... if it came down to it, I would spend money on a young (26) pro-bowl CB with proven track record and a detailed understanding of the system before I would spend money on a LB. That said I think he has out played his value to the Patriots, he will leave and do very well for another team (and get paid very well), from the Pats perspective the received unreal value from a 4th round pick.
     
  10. SeanBruschi54

    SeanBruschi54 In the Starting Line-Up

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    #24 Jersey

    First of all im pissed i didnt get to get him :mad: .

    Second hes a lesser version of AJ Hawk. Not a better version.
     
  11. sebman2112

    sebman2112 In the Starting Line-Up

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    When is the last time a dog had 26 sacks in the SEC, and 23 QBH's in his senior season alone? He missed two games after dislocating his toes, but came back to play through the pain, which shows toughness, and a devotion to the team. In only 10 games played in 2007 Quentin put up 35 tackles, 7 TFL, 3 sacks, 2 FF's, and 23 QBH.

    His sack total dropped down this season, but the injury had a part in that. funny his QBH total jumped tremendously though. Even with the injury and his missing two games Groves still earned first team all SEC honors, which is an award given out by coaches.

    Over his career at Auburn Groves has been one of the most consistant pass rushers in the nation, and he's been an unquestioned leader of Auburn's defense.

    He's plenty big & strong (visuals) coming in at 6'3" 250lbs. He's faster than Gholston, and a more polished pass rusher.

    NFLDraftScout has Groves listed as the 12th overall prospect in the 2008draft, and the third ranked prospect at OLB.

    Here's a look at Groves stats throughout his career at Aurburn:

    2003: redshirted

    2004: 13 GP; 0 GS; 23 TT, 10 TFL, 7.5 Sacks, 4 QBH, 2 FF

    2005: 12 GP; 3 GS; 21 TT, 8 TFL, 6 SK, 1 PBU, 4 QBH, 1 FF; Coaches' Preseason All-SEC Third-Team.

    2006: 13 GP; 13 GS; 35 TT, 11 TFL, 9.5 SK, 7 QBH, 3 FF; Coaches All-SEC First Team, AP All-SEC First Team in.

    2007: Only played 10 games and was limited in two others due to injury, 35 TT, 7 TFL, 3 sacks, 23 QBH, and 2 FF....2007 All-SEC First Team (Coaches).

    Quentin's already worked out for NFL scouts, where he put up blistering times, while maintaining his listed size.

    The LB prospects that I like most at ILB are still Jon Goff, and Rey Maualuga.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In free agency I'm still advocating the signing of either Karlos Dansby or Victor Hobson. I'd actually like to see both of them brought in, but who knows. Clark Haggans could also be an option.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2007
  12. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    I said taller and faster, not better. JL may be better in coverage but I don't think he is an physical or instinctive as Hawk. Lets all watch the BCS Championship game and focus on #33, then report on his fit with the Patriots. He still hasn't declared yet so it may all be mute, if he stays in school along with Maualuga then the 07 ILB class has taking a very big step backwards.

    I am also interested to see what he really weights, is he 235 or 245, does he run a 4.5 or 4.7?
     
  13. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    I'm officially on the Laurinaitis band wagaon. My friend is OSU fan, so I watch alot their games. While he's always around the ball and team leader, I dont think he's at Hawks lever. Gholston has climbed in my book after what he did to Michigan's Long. Looking at him though, you have to wonder if he's on something.
     
  14. sebman2112

    sebman2112 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Why does everyone keep talking about Gholston's performance against Jake Long? He did have a few good plays against Long, but if I remember correctly most of Gholston's work in that game came against Michigan's other OT...
     
  15. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    I know. It's now reached the status of Asante's "Get Paid" Tattoo and Meriweather's Dad is a cop.

    It takes one person to mention something.....
     
  16. midwestpatsfan

    midwestpatsfan Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    #95 Jersey

    I will adopt a 3 players that I know a lot about. They are all from Iowa State University.

    1. Ahtyba Rubin-DT: HT:6-3 WT. 326
    Rubin is probably the best fit for the Patriots system and could be a good backup for Wilfork. Rubin came on really strong at the end of the season under new head coach Gene Chiziks system. Rubin was consistently in the backfield despite being double teamed all the time. Played offensive line in high school but made the switch to DL in college. Uses his hands well and has great leverage. I promise you he is going to shoot up draft boards because of his size and athleticism. projected round 3 or 4.

    2. Alvin (ace) Bowen-OLB: HT:6-2 WT: 225
    If Bowen could add some weight to his frame without losing his speed he could be a stud. Led all of division 1 in tackles in 2006 with 155. Loves to hit people and is always around the ball. His has good quickness and seems to play the pass well. Again, his major issue is his size right now, but I look for him to put on a lot of weight before the draft. He was banged up a little this year but still led the team in tackles and was in the top 5 in the country in tackles per game.

    3. Todd Blythe-WR: HT: 6-5 WT: 225
    If Todd would have left school after his sophomore year he would have been an early 2nd round pick because of his size, hands, and speed. Unfortunately for him, his QB could not get him the ball near as often as he should have. Blythe has the speed to stretch the field but also shows the willingness to go across the middle. His last 2 years he has been consistently double teamed and was really the only threat the clones had on offense. Bltyhe is an extremely hard worker and if the ball touches his hands it will be caught. Blythes numbers were down this year and that may hurt his draft stock, but could be a steal in the mid rounds of the draft.

    I know these guys are a bit more obscure, but hopefully this helps.
     
  17. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    This is exactly the kind of firsthand analysis we need. With his size, Bowen could be a SS prospect in the mode of Rodney. Do you think that's a possibility?
     
  18. midwestpatsfan

    midwestpatsfan Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    #95 Jersey

    That is going to be the biggest question on Bowen. He is going to be playing in the east/west shrine bowl and it will be interesting to see if they try him out at SS. He has good speed, so that will not be an issue and he is one of the best tacklers I have seen in awhile. I was thinking the same thing about him at SS and that may be where he has to end up. His talent is unquestioned, its his size and position in the NFL that is going to create issues for teams.
     
  19. SeanBruschi54

    SeanBruschi54 In the Starting Line-Up

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    #24 Jersey

    Most Ohio State fans are split on what he wants to do. Some seem hell bent on that hes staying with the school other tend to think he'll go for the draft and be taken relatively high.
     
  20. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    Seems like a good fit for special teams and possible SS/OLB, similar to who they use Rodney sometimes. Hard to say if Izzo will be back, there could be some open ST spots. Great post, thanks for the info.
     
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