Adios Ocho - Ola Randy Moss?

[robbomango]

Branch disapeared more over the two game stretch of Buffalo and Oakland. In those two games, he had a combined 1 catch for 4 yards. Yes, Branch has been far more productive than Ochocinco, but you can't act like he hasn't disapeared over a multiple game stretch.

I'd just like my #2 receiver to have a bit more height and speed in contrast to Welkers size and skill set. Was the expectation Welker #1, Ocho #2, Branch #3?

there does seem to be a concern if they were looking into the Brandon lloyd prospect.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Didn't jerry rice retire at 40? i know he was more versatile than Moss so losing a step didn't prevent him from going over the middle or blocking etc.

Just curious what's the expiration date on a receiver? I would think at 34 Moss has at least a couple years left.

That being said, seems like we need more youth at receiver. dream offense Defense thread needed to make sense of boards like this.

poor OchoSinking, just want him to be semi productive at this point.

There is no expiration date per se on a receiver. You seldom realize they have reached their's until you whiff the stink... And the more gifted and bigger/taller they are the faster and harder they eventually fall because despite how much conditioning work they endure to maintain their skill their reliance on natural talent begins to fail them and their lack of effort over the years to add variety to a limited repetoire that served them well out of the gate usually results in a suddenly old dog who can no longer perform new tricks he long held were beneath him.

I'm not sure Ocho has lost a step so much as his lifelong lack of consistent focus and over reliance on talent doesn't just make him a poor fit or even reclamation project. He's always dropped a lot of balls in the process of catching a lot of balls. That's part of the reason why Palmer accumulated lots of empty yardage stats. That approach to the game won't fly here. He's also seldom been on the same page with either of his QB's...and while it was legitimately debatable (and sometimes even debated on the field) with the former one as to who was screwing up, that's also not gonna fly here...

I don't think Chad anticipated it would be this tough to just climb aboard the good ship Belichick and ride the Brady wave to ultimate career validation. I think he has come to realize it's a lot harder than he ever imagined, and to his credit he isn't just giving up, but I have my doubts he has it in him to grasp let alone embrace a complex system. He's a playful guy and a showman at heart whose football talent gave him a stage and attention and a lot of other opportunities and distractions he equally enjoys and I just don't think at this juncture he can compartmentalize himself in the all football box (the way guys like Brady and Welker can) and block out all the noise no matter how hard he practices...

He is a guy who needs to play loose (although not undisciplined as he did in Cincy). He isn't doing that here. He's become uncomfortable (afraid) on every snap that he's gonna F up and it shows. He's having to think about rules and reads and adjustments and fits and depths and cuts and processing that level of detail flumoxes lots of otherwise talented guys who try to play here.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Since this is another needless "gripe about Johnson" thread, here's a couple of gripes that might at least have some bearing on what happens on the field....


Why aren't the Patriots running some bubble screens to Johnson to get him involved in easier plays and build up his confidence?

Why aren't the Patriots running empty sets and putting Johnson in Motion as the primary, so his route will be the easiest to decipher?

Why aren't the Patriots using that bunch formation with Johnson in the bunch, so that his route is already predetermined and he can focus on just running the play?


Personally, I think having questions like that is a bit better than just having thread number 5214314578 on "Cut Chad and bring back Randy!" being full of guesses about the guy's psyche.

Um...maybe because the goal here is to win games as a team and not to make one players transition easier at the potential expense of failure.

It's not supposed to be easy to win. That is why so many players and teams fail at it...

 

[DaBruinz]

I'd just like my #2 receiver to have a bit more height and speed in contrast to Welkers size and skill set. Was the expectation Welker #1, Ocho #2, Branch #3?

there does seem to be a concern if they were looking into the Brandon lloyd prospect.

That may have been the fan expectations, but those are typically unrealistic expectations.

As for the Lloyd rumors, who knows if they are true..

 

[Dessalines]

Out of curiosity, what was the time difference to learn a new offensive system for Randy Moss and Chad Ochocinco?

When Moss first came to New England, he did not play in preseason games and was listed as injured. Then from the first regular season game to the end of the season, excluding the Super Bowl, Moss and Brady put on a season long clinic on how to play Quarter Back and Wide Receiver. To date Ocho is still learning the play book.

I don't think Ocho is going anywhere but I would like more contribution from him, especially when he actually gets on the field. Committing penalties and running the wrong routes is not what the PATS are paying for. For me the jury's still out but the frustration is rising.

 

[Rob0729]

This is looking like another AD style misfire by BB who became too enamored of 85 in Cincy. I was not excited about the trade yet I wish Chad the best here, but for that $ I do believe that BB thought he was getting FAR more than he received. Not stepping up and becoming a significant contributor when 81 was hurt was a major failing of Chad's performance.

That said, as the 5th or so option he has additional time to sync up. I've seen no indication that he has thrown in the towel.

I don't think you can compare Adalius Thomas to Ochocinco in any way. Thomas was in his prime and supposed to be the next McGinest or more in the Pats' defense. He was paid near top dollar and was considered the prize of free agency.

The Pats acquired Ochocinco with a low round pick and expected to be an addition to an already high powered offense and a one or two year addition at that.

 

[letekro]

Pretty tough situation for Ocho in my view. Any other team, you're Ochocinco, you run a wrong route, you get another ball on the next play or the next possession. On this team, there are 4 other high quality options (5 if you count the RB) that Brady can go to on any play. Once Ocho screws up, he's out of the game or Brady doesn't look at him anymore. That's a tremendous amount of pressure and he obviously isn't handling it well. At any rate, I expect him to catch 1-3 passes per game the rest of the way and make a big play or two. That's more than fine from your 5th or 6th option (which he will be if/when Faulk comes back).

 

[Calciumee]

Moss is done! If he wasn't, Titans would have kept him around! They need WRs, and they haven't gone back for him!

People need to get over Randy Moss coming back!

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Branch disapeared more over the two game stretch of Buffalo and Oakland. In those two games, he had a combined 1 catch for 4 yards. Yes, Branch has been far more productive than Ochocinco, but you can't act like he hasn't disapeared over a multiple game stretch.

But Branch was being double teamed because of what he did in the two preceding games...thereby facilitating opportunities for his teamates. And he still managed a TD catch to ice the win in the Oakland game... Branch is out there drawing coverage and including double coverage and running convincing routes and providing crucial blocking for teamates and doing all the little things that facilitate this offense even when he isn't targeted that Chad isn't doing in addition to not making the most of his limited (as a result) opportunities.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Pretty tough situation for Ocho in my view. Any other team, you're Ochocinco, you run a wrong route, you get another ball on the next play or the next possession. On this team, there are 4 other high quality options (5 if you count the RB) that Brady can go to on any play. Once Ocho screws up, he's out of the game or Brady doesn't look at him anymore. That's a tremendous amount of pressure and he obviously isn't handling it well. At any rate, I expect him to catch 1-3 passes per game the rest of the way and make a big play or two. That's more than fine from your 5th or 6th option (which he will be if/when Faulk comes back).

Not on a team that prides itself in not overpaying for inferior production. They didn't trade picks and pay him $6M to be a 5th or 6th option in 2011, believe me... That's the anthesis of the Belichick compensation model...

 

[robbomango]

Moss is secretly a member of this site and the man behind the curtains pushing these threads to further his agenda of getting the fans on his side as a first step to coming back.

Randy's plan=Epic fail

I don't know if we're beating a dead horse or a horse on life support:spygate:

 

[Rob0729]

I'd just like my #2 receiver to have a bit more height and speed in contrast to Welkers size and skill set. Was the expectation Welker #1, Ocho #2, Branch #3?

there does seem to be a concern if they were looking into the Brandon lloyd prospect.

I always expected Branch to be second just because he fits the offense. I figured that Ocho would be the outside threat but that doesn't mean he was going to be Brady's #2 option at WR.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Ian really needs to ban members here for making threads of Randy Moss comebacks here.

1st violation) suspension for 3 days

2nd violation) suspension for 7 days

3rd violation) banned forever at Patsfans and forced to join JI



I'm Serious

 

[goheels22002]

I think the problem here is that too many people expected him to come here and put up numbers a la Moss 2007.

Not really. I don't think anybody expected Ochostinko to put up Moss numbers in an offense with so many weapons. The expectation was that Chad was a professional who understood defenses, knew how to make adjustments and could learn a playbook. So far, no sign of that.

If his production continues at his current rate, Ochostinko is on pace through sixteen games in 2011 for 21 receptions, 317 yards and zero TDs.

That's what Wes Welker puts up in two to three games.

With Tom Brady throwing him the ball, it was realistic and fair to expect a year along the lines of his 2009 numbers: 72 receptions (average 4 to 5 per game), 1,047 yards receiving, 9 TDs. Above average for a wideout with his size, speed and hands, but not spectacular. He's not even close to achieving that.


The guy has had 4 seasons with 90 or more catches and more than 1,200 yards. He's got the goods. I don't get it.

 

[goheels22002]

Ian really needs to ban members here for making threads of Randy Moss comebacks here.

1st violation) suspension for 3 days

2nd violation) suspension for 7 days

3rd violation) banned forever at Patsfans and forced to join JI



I'm Serious

You just got yourself Three Days in the box, Private!

 

[RIpats88]

Not really. I don't think anybody expected Ochostinko to put up Moss numbers in an offense with so many weapons. The expectation was that Chad was a professional who understood defenses, knew how to make adjustments and could learn a playbook. So far, no sign of that.

If his production continues at his current rate, Ochostinko is on pace through sixteen games in 2011 for 21 receptions, 317 yards and zero TDs.

That's what Wes Welker puts up in two to three games.

With Tom Brady throwing him the ball, it was realistic and fair to expect a year along the lines of his 2009 numbers: 72 receptions (average 4 to 5 per game), 1,047 yards receiving, 9 TDs. Above average for a wideout with his size, speed and hands, but not spectacular. He's not even close to achieving that.


The guy has had 4 seasons with 90 or more catches and more than 1,200 yards. He's got the goods. I don't get it.

is it possible he just has very poor Football IQ?? I mean Woodhead was able to come in last year, could read the coverages and was able to put 1000yards from scrimmage without even a training camp and was scoring TD's before Tom brady knew his name.

Ochocinco has the talent(he put up 800yards last year) but he just seems lost out there..and this is an offense that relies more on football IQ than just raw receiver talent...im starting to think the offensive playcalling in Cincinatti mustve just been "run around until you get open and well pass to you"

im ready to give taylor price a chance...hes big, fast and if he knows his routes better than ocho...he at least can offer something more

 

[robbomango]

Ian really needs to ban members here for making threads of Randy Moss comebacks here.

1st violation) suspension for 3 days

2nd violation) suspension for 7 days

3rd violation) banned forever at Patsfans and forced to join JI



I'm Serious

bye Ocho hello Randy

the title of this one caught me off guard at first glance, i didn't see the question mark.

I literally thought we cut Ocho and signed Moss until I opened the thread. Rookie mistake i guess

 

[DaBruinz]

is it possible he just has very poor Football IQ?? I mean Woodhead was able to come in last year, could read the coverages and was able to put 1000yards from scrimmage without even a training camp and was scoring TD's before Tom brady knew his name.

Ochocinco has the talent(he put up 800yards last year) but he just seems lost out there..and this is an offense that relies more on football IQ than just raw receiver talent...im starting to think the offensive playcalling in Cincinatti mustve just been "run around until you get open and well pass to you"

im ready to give taylor price a chance...hes big, fast and if he knows his routes better than ocho...he at least can offer something more

Big difference between RB and WR. I am fairly certain that the RB doesn't have the route tree that the WRs do.

 

[RIpats88]

for everyon saying "we shouldnt expect more from a 5th receiving option" that is true, but at the same time you have to wonder what bills idea was when he signed such a receiver to a team that already had the #1 offense last year.

I think bills statements in a football life kind of give way to his thinking when before the last game(where welker got injured) he says "do we want welker... getting lit up another 5-6 times?".....as dynamic as our offense is, Hernandez is injury prone as is Deion Branch...its a long season and im not sure BB wants them playing every single snap the rest of the way...or theyll be dead come the playoffs.

I think BB thought we could have another big play receiving option that could at least spell those guys for some snaps

 

[goheels22002]

Big difference between RB and WR. I am fairly certain that the RB doesn't have the route tree that the WRs do.

You are correct, but Ochostinko should at least be able to come in during certain down and distance situations. He can't even stay put for a snap count. It's ridiculous. Let's hope he has an epiphany during the bye and comes back knowing what he is supposed to do.