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Adding Cody would make us stronger at multiple positions

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by BradyManny, Jan 27, 2010.

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  1. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    And here's how - though I cannot claim to be the originator of this idea, I believe both Ochmed & Mayoclinic have alluded to it over the past two years. It has the caveat that we must retain Wilfork somehow as well.

    I currently see us with deficiencies at DE, NT, SILB & WILB (I'll explain). Drafting Cody AND signing/franchising Wilfork will give us the quickest upgrade to our defense - and in two moves, would shore up the 4 positions mentioned.

    NT: I know I'm in the minority, but I've long thought Wilfork was almost a tweener, and I liked seeing him at DE this past year. He is not a perfect 3-4NT, he CAN, at times, be physically overmatched at NT in our 3-4, and I, personally, would be intrigued to see how a behemoth like Cody would help out or defense. Another point - Wilfork has been insanely durable. But even in 08, it was suspected he was playing through injury, as he was this year. For what we ask him to do as our NT, he could use a little more weight, if moved to DE and dropping a few pounds, he might be more effective and durable in the long run. This also might allow Wilfork to contribute in packages other than just the base defense, increasing his value to us.
    DE: It might sound odd, but permanently moving Wilfork to DE - if we had a suitable 3-4 NT lined up, ie Cody - in the base D might be the biggest upgrade we can make. We saw him there this year for a couple of games out of necessity. I think the necessity is still there. Jarvis & Wright are both good, solid players, but neither are elite DL, which we need if we want this defense to function.
    SILB & WILB: I know this may be heresy, but I don't think either Mayo or Guyton are really proving to have the "sand in the pants" to be overly effective ILB in the 3-4, as our defense is currently constituted. What I mean by that is, without Seymour in there last year, guards were getting to the LBs on essentially every running play. Wilfork is big, but he's not as effective a space-eater without an elite DL on his side like Seymour. In previous years, the LBs might have more room to work with when the big guys up front are chewing up blockers. Not the case this past season. Both Mayo & Guyton are best in space. They are quick sideline to sideline. Mayo showed improvements in taking on blockers in his rookie season, and perhaps it was just the injury, but he regressed last season. Guyton wasn't much better at it.

    If we had a big DL - Warren - Cody - Wilfork - it would completely free up Guyton and Mayo to use their speed and athleticism to make plays. Whatever deficiency in speed our oversized DL would have (and honestly, it wouldn't be much, b/c Wilfork is extremely fast for his size), the guys behind them would be making up for it.

    As it is, if we simply retain Wilfork and put Wright or Green back in that at DL, I don't see us having an elite front 7. We will continue to be light at both ILB positions, and struggle at times against the run - as we did this year.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2010
  2. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I can not lie, I like this thinking.

    I would go one step further and say that a DL of Warren Cody and Wilfork would need an elephant backer (hybrid DE/OLB like McGinest [6'3" plus and 270 or so pounds.]that is fairly athletic and can run) to line up on the side of Wilfork. Someone that can set a really hard edge against the run and force everything back inside.

    The elephant backer would allow you to keep Mayo and Guyton on the field where they would line up as ILB's but function as the MLB and one OLB.

    The key is can the elephant backer cover TE's, not named Clark or Whitten. That means running a 4.6 and having some coverage skills.

    With Cody and Wilfork in the midle and RDE, there is nothing coming up the middle. Warren does an excellent job of run defense on the left. As long as the OLB's set the edge, the ILB's should have a field day cleaning everything else up for minimal gain, since they no longer have to shed O Line blocks.
     
  3. ayjackson

    ayjackson Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    If we move Wilfork to RDE, we'd better get a ROLB who can set the edge, because Wilfork is not Seymour when it comes to getting out to the sidelines.
     
  4. Big-T

    Big-T In the Starting Line-Up

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    Trade 2 2nds for a 1st then get Cody & Dunlap in the first round, that would give this team a monster front 7.
     
  5. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I've proposed trading 42, 47 and 118 to Atlanta for 19 and 83 before. Atlanta has no 2nd round pick, so they might be open to the move. That would give us 19 and 22. Use one pick on Carlos Dunlap, and the other on one of the following:

    - Further trade up to 10 for ILB Rolando McClain or possibly CB Joe Haden - probably difficult
    - RB CJ Spiller
    - DT Terrance Cody or DT Dan Williams

    The latter option, combined with Dunlap, would give this team a monster front 7. Dan Williams offers more versatility and positional flexibility than Cody - he can play 3-4 NT, 4-3 DT, or even 3-4 DE. But if you want an immovable object with Wilfork moving to DE, then Cody can't be beat. Both options would do a tremendous amount for our defense.
     
  6. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Another option at NT would be to draft Cam Thomas out of NC State. He's not Cody, but he's a good run-stuffer that will be available later, maybe with our last 2nd rounder, that would allow us to spend the #1 on someone besides Cody, or in a trade up for a guy like McClain, if BB values him that highly.

    If we keep our #1 where it is, I have a sneaking suspicion that Alex Carrington might be Belichick's guy.

    We could have a potential front 3 as Warren-Thomas-Wilfork with Carrington playing the elephant.
     
  7. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I certainly like the idea of 19, 22, 53 and 83.

    As you indicate, we would still might looking to move up further, especially if we don't re-sign Bodden.

     
  8. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I knew you'd like the idea - as I said in my post, I credit you and mayoclinic for essentially coming up with the idea.

    The only thing I'm thinking that I thought was worth pointing out is the ripple effect it has - specifically on our ILB play: Basically, getting bigger on the DL with Cody would de-emphasize a weakness (smaller, younger LBs struggling to consistently shed blocks) and turn it into a strength (fast LBs who can track down RBs in a hurry).
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2010
  9. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    As I said, I'm basically taking the inspiration from you, but think about McClain for a minute - how necessary would he really be if we had the strength up front? For years we've wondered about the SILB position, and we know how important it is - but having a behemoth line would allow Guyton & Mayo to excel in our system, without the need of acquiring a big, 2-down run stuffer at SILB. Two birds with one stone. And it won't require trading up. All it requires it the money to pay Wilfork - we should be able to get Cody at 22 at this point.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2010
  10. Seneschal2

    Seneschal2 In the Starting Line-Up

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  11. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If Cody is playing NT, then it seems likely that we would trade Wilfork for a 1st to use on a DE.


     
  12. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I mentioned this benefit much earlier in the year, and totally agree. Mayo and Guyton are with similar players, with great speed and range, capable of covering a lot of territory. Neither one is a 3-4 SILB. If we can't get a true 3-4 Mike, then I would consider running a lot of 4-2-5 "big nickel". Put Wilfork and Cody/Williams in the middle (or even Ty Warren), and Carlos Dunlap/Brandon Graham and Wright/Warren at DE, and then let Mayo and Guyton run around behind them and track people down. Particularly if you consider that Chung and McGowan/Sanders could play a hybrid safety/LB role and come up in run support, with Meriweather playing centerfielder/nickelback and backing up the CB's. I think this kind of scheme would maximize our playmaking capability.

    Even if we get a true SILB I could see us switching from a 3-4 to 4-2-5 or a 3-3-5 for a considerable portion of plays.
     
  13. RIP#40

    RIP#40 On the Game Day Roster

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    Can't say I follow college football,but have you seen the pic of Cody with his shirt off? I know BB looks for players that love football, this guy loves food. He has IR written all over him(beneath the breasts). No way I use a first on this fatty.
    The Producers Blog
     
  14. patsinthesnow

    patsinthesnow PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Reading through this thread I am loving this idea as it seems to fix the defense without using more than 2 picks.

    Based on reading, you guys want:

    #22 Terrance Cody
    1 2nd rd pick: "Elephant" (Dunlap?)

    So, that would leave the last two 2nd rounders to use on a WR and a RB.

    It seems like the smartest move to fix both sides of the ball.
     
  15. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think it more likely Wilfork is tagged & traded then retained based on his opening salvo in the negotiations and the team's apparent intent to be frugile while the CBA picture is uncertain.

    I don't think Mayo, and particularly Guyton, get credit for their improvement from rookies to second year ILBs. Both demonstrated better hands, and we can pray they make a similar leap as third year players. Mayo was handicapped by his knee injury. Guyton made the greater leap from year one to two. Neither are old school head thumpers like TJ, nor prior DL used to hand fighting OL like Bruschi and Vrabel. Mayo makes the point about SILB/WILB, and I've agreed with this in the past, but we might wish to ponder if BB is deliberately shifting away from that model in a pass happy NFL? Those sideline-to-sideline speed kids may be a trade-off he's test driving during the defensive makeover transition - after all, he's made an effort to put a hybrid four CB secondary on the field with Meriweather and Chung in recent drafts.

    This is a deeper draft for NT prospects than I had originally thought. In the first two days you are looking at Cody, Williams, Troup, and maybe Cam Thomas. Day three has Joseph, Woods, Ross, and Tevaseau with another half dozen rounding out NFLDS' top 50 DT. We've already seen that a combination of Pryor and Wright can fill in for Wilfork for short periods, and if the lightbulb comes on for Brace you've got a three man rotation that can get you through a season...and that's not to say the 40 front trend doesn't continue.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2010
  16. alvinnf

    alvinnf In the Starting Line-Up

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    I can't wait to see Wilfork and Cody hussle off on 3rd and 9.
    The idea of moving Vince to end is not multiple enough on passing downs.
    He's coming off on 3rd down, ideally your 5 tech. should be someone whom you could kick inside to get after the QB.
    Everybody is looking for a 34 end which is hard to find.
    How about the 43 and let Brace earn his money at DT.
     
  17. Metaphors

    Metaphors In the Starting Line-Up

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    I may be a little slow here, but what team is everyone trying to defend against? The Pats would have 3 roster spots involving huge investments in draft picks and salary, which any of the top AFC teams (Indy, Pitt, SD) can take off the field by running a 4-wide spread. The schemes being proposed here are interesting but way too easy to attack by a pass-heavy team. Last time I looked, there were a lot of them.
     
  18. Badluck

    Badluck On the Game Day Roster

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    dont want him

    you have to spell him way too much
    we have wilfork
    Cody was easily moved in the senior bowl practices with double teams
    we have wilfork
    we have more important needs
    we have wilfork
    we just spent a 2nd on ron brace
    did i mention we have wilfork?
     
  19. Badluck

    Badluck On the Game Day Roster

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    heres my dream scenario involving a trade up
    in FA we sign karlos dansby(taking out the possibility of mcclain)
    then in the draft we trade up for joe haden
     
  20. wilfork is beastin'

    wilfork is beastin' On the Game Day Roster

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    Cody is a great prospect who has the makings of a good nose tackle, but I'm going to stick with what BadLuck said:


    we have Wilfork. :rocker:
     
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