Adams over Brace?

[Sicilian]

Look at the players BB has passed up while trading back a zillion times in order to select a Terrence Wheatley or Ron Brace.

Patriots would not be in the state they currently are if he stayed put and drafted players like David Harris or DeMeco Ryans. The list of great missed players is endless.

Every team misses, BB just so happen to whiff quite a bit lately.

They also drafted Butler, Chung, and Vollmer in that same second round, who have all been contributing.

Looks better when you don't cherry pick the facts, doesn't it?

Second rounders are generally a 50/50 shot anyway, otherwise they would be 1st rounders. BB is pretty close to that ratio I believe, and his 1st round track record is exceptional (especially considering he generally drafts in the later half).

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Adams over Brace ?

Wilfork will either be gone or have a long term contract. where do you get two years?

Wilfork can be franchised next season.. That's how he got two years..

 

[DaBruinz]

Everyone is impressed with his weight at 330 but fail to see he at 6 5 is more suited as a end then NT.NT is more about leverage and a taller mass is going to lose leverage.

This is FALSE. Ted Washington, who is considered to be the best NT to ever play the game, was 6'5.

Ted Washington

Leverage is about how well you can get your knee bend and staying low after the snap.

Vince might hold out for a contract next year or a Non franchise deal like samuel. He has more good will and i think this will be a anticlimatic if he refuses to play and one of the below
Jets,SF,Dolphins,GB,Steelers,chargers teams is going to interfer with a offer.
chargers for years have been unsuccessfull to find jamal repalcement and i will put them top candidate for 2 1st rounders.

Vince, if franchised, won't hold out.. And don't hold your breath for San Diego to be dealing 2 first rounders either... Not with Terrence Cody in the draft.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

This is FALSE. Ted Washington, who is considered to be the best NT to ever play the game, was 6'5.

Ted Washington

Leverage is about how well you can get your knee bend and staying low after the snap.

quote=satz;1644594]Vince might hold out for a contract next year or a Non franchise deal like samuel. He has more good will and i think this will be a anticlimatic if he refuses to play and one of the below
Jets,SF,Dolphins,GB,Steelers,chargers teams is going to interfer with a offer.
chargers for years have been unsuccessfull to find jamal repalcement and i will put them top candidate for 2 1st rounders.

Vince, if franchised, won't hold out.. And don't hold your breath for San Diego to be dealing 2 first rounders either... Not with Terrence Cody in the draft.[/QUOTE]

Db....ted washington was more of an exception....you could say that he was so big that the height just didn't matter the guy was over 400lbs. which would eliminate the need to be able to use leverage.

I would also argue if he was the best NT ever.......Curley Culp invented pretty much every technique that was required to play NT

an interesting side note is that Curley Culp with the oilers used to open holes for Ted Washington's dad, Ted Washington, Sr.

 

[DaBruinz]

Look at the players BB has passed up while trading back a zillion times in order to select a Terrence Wheatley or Ron Brace.

Patriots would not be in the state they currently are if he stayed put and drafted players like David Harris or DeMeco Ryans. The list of great missed players is endless.

Every team misses, BB just so happen to whiff quite a bit lately.

How do you know that the Pats would not be in their current state if they'd taken Harris or Ryans? In fact, how do you know that the Pats wouldn't be WORSE OFF.

The Jets traded most of their draft to get Revis and Harris.. What happened to the GM and Coach who did that? They were fired. Not to mention that the Pats used their 2007 2nd round pick to get Welker..

As for Ryans, if the Pats take him, there is no Maroney (which I am sure a lot of you would rejoice at). However, then what do the Pats do for a running game? LenDale White? Brian Calhoun??

 

[tanked_as_usual]

How do you know that the Pats would not be in their current state if they'd taken Harris or Ryans? In fact, how do you know that the Pats wouldn't be WORSE OFF.

The Jets traded most of their draft to get Revis and Harris.. What happened to the GM and Coach who did that? They were fired. Not to mention that the Pats used their 2007 2nd round pick to get Welker..

As for Ryans, if the Pats take him, there is no Maroney (which I am sure a lot of you would rejoice at). However, then what do the Pats do for a running game? LenDale White? Brian Calhoun??

you'd have to go back to the drafting of ben watson over karlos dansby if you want to pick a point where a draft decision affected the outcome of what we have at LB today. you can add to that the 2005 draft and the decision to trade away their 2nd round pick instead of drafting channing crowder...you could also argue taking logan mankins over barrett ruud had an impact, but I doubt anyone would want to touch that argument....in 2006, an example would be trading away their 2nd rounder for a chance to draft darryl tapp....but I believe the one that hurt the most was trading away the 28th pick in 2007 to the niner in what would eventually become jerrod mayo instead of drafting lamarr woodley.......as of right now, I would take woodley with no offense to mayo

 

[condon84]

Re: Adams over Brace ?

This pick will be worse than the Kevin O'Connell pick. I'll happily eat crow if I am wrong, but let's deal with reality instead of assumptions.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Re: Adams over Brace ?

This pick will be worse than the Kevin O'Connell pick. I'll happily eat crow if I am wrong, but let's deal with reality instead of assumptions.

what makes it hurt is the guys who were available at the time....everette brown, connor barwin, clint sintim.....no world beaters there, but guys who would project better to the future than brace

terrance knighton (DT for the jags currently starting taken in round 3) who looks more the part makes it hurt yet even more

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Re: Adams over Brace ?

How many reps has Pryor played at NT?

you're narrowing it down to NT? I thought you said it takes time to develop players for the 3-4....you said nothing about NT.

the fact is, he can't even step onto the field. he is not sitting because of his inexperience. mayo, guyton, green, wilfork, warren, seymour, all contributed much in their rookie seasons. I'm not looking for any of that.......at LEAST just step onto the field.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Curiously, this isn't grade school, even though it sometimes seems so. Work ethic isn't what gets you on the field.

it is if you are a 2nd rounder.......

but I guess you are the expert and obviously know that brace is doing all the right things as a 2nd round draft pick to get on the field, but he just can't because of what?

 

[Patspsycho]

Re: Adams over Brace ?

what makes it hurt is the guys who were available at the time....everette brown, connor barwin, clint sintim.....no world beaters there, but guys who would project better to the future than brace

terrance knighton (DT for the jags currently starting taken in round 3) who looks more the part makes it hurt yet even more

Why are you and many others making judgments this soon? I think you're smart enough to know that players mature at different points in their career. Case in point: James Harrison, DPOY, pro-bowler, etc. etc. His first two seasons, he was so green he simply gave up and asked his coaches to forget about playing him.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Re: Adams over Brace ?

Why are you and many others making judgments this soon? I think you're smart enough to know that players mature at different points in their career. Case in point: James Harrison, DPOY, pro-bowler, etc. etc. His first two seasons, he was so green he simply gave up and asked his coaches to forget about playing him.

expectation is a little different when you're a 2nd round draft pick.....

besides, harrison was behind joey porter, kendrell bell, and jason gildon.....all of which were in their prime......on the #1 defense in the NFL at the time.......yeah....an undrafted guy is just going to step right in and take it all away.....

 

[Patspsycho]

Re: Adams over Brace ?

expectation is a little different when you're a 2nd round draft pick.....

besides, harrison was behind joey porter, kendrell bell, and jason gildon.....all of which were in their prime......on the #1 defense in the NFL at the time.......yeah....an undrafted guy is just going to step right in and take it all away.....

Brace is behind Wilfork, Warren, Green, and Wright who are not too bad in their own right.

The point I am trying to make is just because a player is seemingly benched while others jump over him on the depth chart does not always translate into a lost cause.

 

[condon84]

Re: Adams over Brace ?

Brace is behind Wilfork, Warren, Green, and Wright who are not too bad in their own right.

The point I am trying to make is just because a player is seemingly benched while others jump over him on the depth chart does not always translate into a lost cause.

Let's deal with the facts that we know are for certain:

Pryor, a 7th (?) round pick is playing ahead of Brace.

Adams, someone we just picked up off the streets got activated over Brace.

Brace is not hurt. But he isn't even being activated.

While it is a possibility that Brace could develop into a stud DT, the only plausible conclusion we can make as of now based on what we know are for certain, is that Brace is a waste of a pick.

 

[Patspsycho]

Re: Adams over Brace ?

While it is a possibility that Brace could develop into a stud DT, the only plausible conclusion we can make as of now based on what we know are for certain, is that Brace is a waste of a pick.

Why can't we simply say "too early to tell"? Why do we have to either say "bust" or "success"? It isn't as if this is an either/or predicament.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Adams over Brace ?

Let's deal with the facts that we know are for certain:

Pryor, a 7th (?) round pick is playing ahead of Brace. 6th round. And Pryor has been lining up at DT and DE. Brace was going to be a DT/NT. He's way too slow to be a DE.

Adams, someone we just picked up off the streets got activated over Brace. This is Adams 3rd year with the team. He's been on the practice squad. That is entirely different than "someone we just picked up off the streets"

Brace is not hurt. But he isn't even being activated.

While it is a possibility that Brace could develop into a stud DT, the only plausible conclusion we can make as of now based on what we know are for certain, is that Brace is a waste of a pick.

Can't let facts get in the way of your slamming Brace.. Please note the parts in RED..

If it takes 3 years before you can judge a pick (unless they are cut ala Bruce Davis, Chad Jackson, Kevin O'Connell), how can you say its a waste of a pick? Especially when the Pats are KNOWN for bringing along their top defensive line picks at a slow pace.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Adams over Brace ?

...While it is a possibility that Brace could develop into a stud DT, the only plausible conclusion we can make as of now based on what we know are for certain, is that Brace is a waste of a pick.

This is incorrect. It is one plausible conclusion, but it's not the only one.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Adams over Brace ?

This pick will be worse than the Kevin O'Connell pick. I'll happily eat crow if I am wrong, but let's deal with reality instead of assumptions.

If Ron Brace were to eat his way out of the league before the end of this season, he still wouldn't have been a worse pick than the O'Connell selection, IMO. The O'Connell pick may very well have been the worst pick Belioli made in New England.

 

[BionicPatriot]

What if, if, Pryor is just having a shockingly ly effective season and we give him credit instead of hold it against Brace? I mean man, you guys know how to take the good and twist it into some kind of negativity. "Pryor's good, but man that must mean Brace sucks!"

I'm not thrilled at Brace's season either. But to call him a bust is silly. That's like me saying Eugene Wilson was a HOFer after two excellent years to begin his career.

Maybe Brace is behind Pryor because he's a slow learner and Pryor is that good. We can't make this conclusion yet. We can't say Brace sucks for the same reason we couldn't call Eugene Wilson a HOFer. You honestly can't give an honest evaluation on a draft pick unless they're 3+ year into their career or near the end of their tenure with a team.

I'm not blindly defending Bill, I have no reason because it damn sure wouldn't help me sleep at night. I'm simply saying give the kid time. Also, enough with all the BB sucks at drafting. Show me a team that's drafted a lot better than the Patriots since 2001.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

Re: Adams over Brace ?

Let's deal with the facts that we know are for certain:

Pryor, a 7th (?) round pick is playing ahead of Brace.

Adams, someone we just picked up off the streets got activated over Brace.

Brace is not hurt. But he isn't even being activated.

While it is a possibility that Brace could develop into a stud DT, the only plausible conclusion we can make as of now based on what we know are for certain, is that Brace is a waste of a pick.

What we know (based on BB's own words) is that Pryor plays with an impressively mature technique and understanding of leverage for a rookie. We also know by inference and observations like Fred Smerlas's that Brace does not. All that means is that Pryor is ready to contribute now, and Brace is not. Technique is something that can be taught. We may find in two years that Pryor will have achieved all that he's capable of in his rookie year and that Brace continues to develop for a half-dozen years, because as he learns, he is able to use his superior physical skills to his advantage. Perhaps not, but we certainly don't know for certain.