Adam vs. Ryan Longwell

[JoeSixPat]

I don't think we're better off without him but for over $3 million a year, I definately don't want him.

I'd keep him at this price while he's playing well - but the important factor isn't going to be the annual salary... its going to be the amount of guaranteed money.

Overpaying a kicker doesn't break the bank like overpaying for other positions. We're talking about a difference of $500,000.

What I expect Adam is focused on is guaranteed money. Adam and the Pats have very different perceptions of how long he can perform at his high level and they are giving him an opportunity to test the market for guaranteed money.

The Pats think the offers will be in line with what they've offered. Adam thinks he can get more from another team and I believe will sincerely give the Pats a chance to match.

I think the feeling on the Pats part was that such a scenario was going to play out this year or next (when his tag salary would have jumped to the truly unpalatable $3.6 million) so best to let it play out this season when CBA uncertainty might put some limits on the market.

That was the wisest move for the Pats, but I'll still lament his loss if and when that happens.

 

[Digger44]

Which is a shame because the initial post was perfectly reasonable: in case Adam leaves, here's a close look at an alternative. Especially reasonable since there are no standout kickers in the draft.

yes, it was a fair and good thread but they did it again.

 

[Alk]

yes, it was a fair and good thread but they did it again.

Damn them.....

 

[smg93]

Which is a shame because the initial post was perfectly reasonable: in case Adam leaves, here's a close look at an alternative. Especially reasonable since there are no standout kickers in the draft.

Exactly! This thread only sucks to people like you PATSnutme who can't seem to understand the premise of this thread. Obviously you're the type of person who believes more in the name on the back of the jersey rather than the front. You probably whined and complained that the Patriots world was coming to an end when Lawyer Milloy was released. Listen, if you are not able to understand the idea of the thread, no one is forcing you to keep on reading or posting on this subject.

Once again, allow me to clear up the misconception that this subject is about who is the better kicker. IT IS NOT! Please read the whole post before you post. This thread clearly was framed on the idea that there are options out there in case Adam leaves on his on volition. Meaning, none of us have the ability to make him stay. Only AV can make that decision. I think most of us here want him to stay but that's not our call. It's people like you who either create or promote absurd controversies when there is none.

Deal with the fact that players join, stay, or leave the PATS every season. Ted Washington, Ty Law, Milloy, Patten, etc have all left or been released. Brady, Bruschi, and Harrison have stayed. Thats just the world of the NFL. That's why true fans understand that cheering for the PATS is all about supporting the team rather than any one individual player. Didn't you understand the point of them being introduced as a team when they won their first superbowl?

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

I have to disagree. You really believe that nobody else in the NFL could make a 45 yd fg in perfect weather conditions? The only kick Adam made that I can't see anyone else making is the kick in the snow bowl.

How did Vanderjaerk do in that situation this year? That kick was at least thirty yards wide to the right. And he was at home, onf turf and in a dome.

 

[Alk]

How did Vanderjaerk do in that situation this year? That kick was at least thirty yards wide to the right. And he was at home, onf turf and in a dome.

Again, you are pointing out one situation. I never even mentioned Vanderjagt's name, you did.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I chuckle that so many here presume we could get Longwell, let alone for less.

Ryan is far more vocal than Adam, and a lot less loyal. He wants to be the highest paid kicker in the league. He also prefers to move indoors as a means of extending his career and padding his stats. He is quite open about his feeling that the deal Rackers got in Arizona is proof positive that one man's junk (Cincy cut him loose as an outdoor kicker) is another teams treasure (Az gave him a $3M signing bonus last year).

Longwell isn't coming here for a contract that keeps him the highest paid (whatever that really means in Belioli speak - and we don't know) but PAYS HIM NO GUARANTEED MONEY OR SIGNING BONUS either. He will have pretty much the same suitors as Adam and probably a very similar pricetag. Thing about comparing apples and apples when the apples are kickers is we're talking the difference of a few hundred thousand as opposed to a few million difference.

Felger, who was born and raised a cheese head, says this guy is a good outdoor kicker relatively speaking but not nearly in Adam's league. And that's kicking without any real pressure since the Pack has been in also ran status for most of his time there - and when a Packers game is on the line in or out of Lambeau they usually sink or swim on Brett's arm and judgement. Some here also question Adam's KO capacity, but Longwell's leg is a lot shorter both last season and over his career.

I tend to agree with Felger that if Adam goes over what amounts to a few hundred thousand a year, whether in salary or amortized signing bonus, the next guy will do fine - until he misses his first game winning or clinching kick. Then a lot of folks will be singing another tune.

 

[BelichickFan]

I chuckle that so many here presume we could get Longwell, let alone for less.

If Adam goes, I fully expect a veteran street FA and draft choice (or FA from this year's draft class) to compete for the job. It makes no sense to let Adam go, sign a replacement veteran and save less than $1M. However, a minimum salary guy gives us a savings on the order of $2.5M, money that could be used elsewhere.

I'm not arguing whether the difference in kickers is worth the savings, just that to have real savings we likely won't be signing a name veteran IMO.

 

[Alk]

There is only one real answer to this whole mess.

 

[Alk]

I chuckle that so many here presume we could get Longwell, let alone for less.

I point and laugh at people who chuckle.

 

[BelichickFan]

There is only one real answer to this whole mess.

Nice . . . or maybe Flutie is an option

 

[PATSNUTme]

Exactly! This thread only sucks to people like you PATSnutme who can't seem to understand the premise of this thread. Obviously you're the type of person who believes more in the name on the back of the jersey rather than the front. You probably whined and complained that the Patriots world was coming to an end when Lawyer Milloy was released. Listen, if you are not able to understand the idea of the thread, no one is forcing you to keep on reading or posting on this subject.

Once again, allow me to clear up the misconception that this subject is about who is the better kicker. IT IS NOT! Please read the whole post before you post. This thread clearly was framed on the idea that there are options out there in case Adam leaves on his on volition. Meaning, none of us have the ability to make him stay. Only AV can make that decision. I think most of us here want him to stay but that's not our call. It's people like you who either create or promote absurd controversies when there is none.

Deal with the fact that players join, stay, or leave the PATS every season. Ted Washington, Ty Law, Milloy, Patten, etc have all left or been released. Brady, Bruschi, and Harrison have stayed. Thats just the world of the NFL. That's why true fans understand that cheering for the PATS is all about supporting the team rather than any one individual player. Didn't you understand the point of them being introduced as a team when they won their first superbowl?

How in the hell do you know what I think? You have 25 post on this board. This subject has had a complete anal exam over and over again, since the end of the season.

When the thread started it was reasonable and I posted that I'd rather have Adam but if he leaves, I'd go with Longwell.

Why don't you read the entire thread before you start telling me to read the post. Don't tell me what I can deal with. I deal just fine, thank you.

This thread does suck because, some of the same people who have done this over and over again, have reduced it to Adam being a clutch kicker or not. And, Adam's worth this amount of $- no he's not he"s only worth this amount, ect, ect. That is not how the thread started out. We have been down that road too many times. That photo was just a little humor that you didn't get.

Enough already.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

As I once said on an older thread on this subject, "Bring back Teddy Garcia!!!".

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Adam kicking to win the Superbowl in the last ten seconds of the game:
2 field goals made, none missed

Everyone else: 0- for

Oh, no.....SB V Jim O'Brien booted one with five seconds left to help the Colts beat Dallas IIRC......
I'm Old enough to remember the game (and having tried on a SB V ring)

 

[fgssand]

That is 2 kickers, that leaves another 29 starting kickers. None of them would make those kicks either? I tend to think that some of them would.

My response was in response to yours here

"I have to disagree. You really believe that nobody else in the NFL could make a 45 yd fg in perfect weather conditions? The only kick Adam made that I can't see anyone else making is the kick in the snow bowl."


I told you to recall the extreme kicks made during 2003 playoffs in the cold with Tenn and the snow with Indy.

AV is the greatest of all time - period. Should we overpay - YES, a little anyway.
If we do not resign him, i am sure someone will kick for us and they may even put one through the uprights.

It is better to have AV for the Pats AND for AV - but if not, we will win without him and his reputation will take a hit up here, no doubt. He will be the enemy.

 

[pats1]

Man, some people woke up on the wrong side of the bed today.

Obviously I love Adam in clutch situations, and his character can't be matched, but the times where I get frustrated with his performance have been more frequent over the past few years. We're more than 4 years removed from the kicks which set us free. There's a time to just let things go.

...but it won't be now. I definitely see Adam sticking around.

 

[Alk]

It is better to have AV for the Pats AND for AV - but if not, we will win without him and his reputation will take a hit up here, no doubt. He will be the enemy.

You won't hear me argue that statement one bit. But it appears Adam won't be here and I'm not going to lose any sleep over it because IMHO he can be replaced.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

There is only one real answer to this whole mess.

Right church, wrong pew.

If Belichick starts training him now, he could probably have Vrabel kicking 50-yarders by September.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

AV is the greatest of all time - period. Should we overpay - YES, a little anyway.
If we do not resign him, i am sure someone will kick for us and they may even put one through the uprights.
.

The problem as I see it is that it may (and probably will) take overpaying him by a lot to keep him. Do you skew your player value scale for a kicker at the expense of other players?
I think we all know the history of the Pats not overpaying and either cutting or not upping the ante for their own FAs over how they value them. Milloy,LAw, Andruzzi,Givens (if the rumors of no offer are true) et al.... should show how the Pats do business. Either of two scenarios will take place.
1) AV gets a huge payday and jumps, possibly to Dallas in the first week of FA.
2) He gets some offers (lower still if there is no CBA and the cap is $94.5M)
and decides it's not worth it and hopefully accepts the Pats last offer if it's still on the table......

 

[stcjones]

good post

I agree and if the Pats are doing that then Adam needs to be a team player as well if he wants to stay with the Pats if not I guess he wants to make a
big payday so then we would have to look at other options and the liquored up kicker is not one of them as was stated earlier.

good points