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Adam vs. Ryan Longwell

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by smg93, Mar 8, 2006.

  1. smg93

    smg93 Rookie

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    I did some research through nfl.com and found these 2005 and career stats for both these kickers.

    A.V.- 6' 0", 202 lbs.
    R.L. - 6'0", 200 lbs.

    Kicking:

    both are perfect from inside 19 yards throughout their careers

    from 20 -29 AV is 96%, RL is 92%

    from 30 -39 AV is 83%, RL is 87%

    from 40 - 49 AV is 71%, RL is 72%

    from 50+ AV is 47%, RL is 59%

    Total kicks in career AV is 81.9%, RL is 81.6% ( if you multiplied the percentage difference by RL's number of total kicks of 277 in his career, that only equates to about one more kick made by AV,

    Kickoffs

    In 2005 AV's avg is 61.7 Yards, Net is 39.8 Yards
    In 2005 RL's avg is 60.9 Yards, Net is 39.3 Yards

    Career AV's avg is 62.4 Yards, Net is 40.9 Yards
    Career RL's avg is 61.1 Yards, Net is 39.7 Yards

    The POINT of this exercise is not to say who is better than whom. AV obviously has the edge in terms of being Mr. Clutch in Playoffs, no question about that. But in terms of 2005 and Career stats, they match up quite favorably. I'd love to have Adam back but if he goes somewhere else, like GB for example, Ryan Longwell might be a good fit for us. Plus, he'll probably come here for less money which means more cap space for us.
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2006
  2. Alk

    Alk Rookie

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    Most people are going to make the argument that Longwell hasn't made the clutch kicks so therefore he's not as good as Adam. I happen to disagree and actually hope this is the guy that we bring in. He's had plenty of experience with kicking in bad weather up in Green Bay.
  3. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Adam kicking to win the Superbowl in the last ten seconds of the game:
    2 field goals made, none missed

    Everyone else: 0- for

    Longwell is a decent kicker, but anyway you look at it, losing Adam will suck
  4. smg93

    smg93 Rookie

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    sorry guys, posted this whole thing before I was finished doing the stats by mistake. Have edited my first post just now to reflect what I intended to say. Thanks
  5. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I really don't need to look at the stats. My first choice is to resign Adam. If we can't do that then bring Longwell in.

    Vanderjerk is not an option.
  6. Alk

    Alk Rookie

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    I have to disagree. You really believe that nobody else in the NFL could make a 45 yd fg in perfect weather conditions? The only kick Adam made that I can't see anyone else making is the kick in the snow bowl.
  7. smg93

    smg93 Rookie

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    Jeez, I knew this was gonna happen! This thread's going to turn out to be an argument about who's more clutch. :D We can argue about that till we're blue in the face but we'd never know who really would be when judging solely from stats.

    The point again of this whole post is to say that there are so many fans who believe that not re-signing Adam would put the PATS in panic mode. I don't believe that to be the case because there are other options out there. HOWEVER, I will say that my first option would be to try and get Adam back even if it means keeping him as the highest paid kicker in the league (as long as it doesn't totally kill our cap space).
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2006
  8. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    At the risk of being accused of piling on, I agree. I love Adam and want him back. And he's been a great clutch kicker. Remember, though, that both of his Super Bowl winners were in a tie game. Kicking the FG down by one to win or lose vs. win or go to O.T. is a vastly different thing.
  9. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Pats' fans in panic mode, perish the thought. :rolleyes:
  10. Sean Pa Patriot

    Sean Pa Patriot Rookie

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    I guess we better start getting ready for the were better off without Adam threads...
  11. Alk

    Alk Rookie

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    I don't think we're better off without him but for over $3 million a year, I definately don't want him.
  12. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't think anyone is saying that but it is what it is and a Super Bowl winning kick in a tie game is different than a Super Bowl winning kick when your team is behind.

    Now, the tying game vs. the Raiders in the Snow Bowl - that was sick.
  13. broadwayjoe

    broadwayjoe Rookie

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    I agree and if the Pats are doing that then Adam needs to be a team player as well if he wants to stay with the Pats if not I guess he wants to make a
    big payday so then we would have to look at other options and the liquored up kicker is not one of them as was stated earlier.
  14. Warhorse

    Warhorse Rookie

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    I wonder how well Adam V or Longwell would kick if half their games are inside? We'd take either one in Indianapolis but we probably don't have the cash for either.

    I believe if Adam was smart he should resign with the Patriots so he can increase his "hometown hero" status for other financial gains. He won't have those same opportunites at a place where he hasn't done anything yet.
  15. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Go watch the Tennessee and Colt 2003 playoff games again please.
  16. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    I want Adam back, period. That said, if he leaves, Ryan Longwell is BY FAR my top choice to replace him. He's been a good, solid kicker, playing games outside and, quite often, in foul weather.
  17. Alk

    Alk Rookie

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    That is 2 kickers, that leaves another 29 starting kickers. None of them would make those kicks either? I tend to think that some of them would.
  18. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well here we go again for what it seems the 100 time in 10 days. "he's a clutch kicker", "no he's not, anyone can do that" blah, blah blah.



    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2006
  19. Alk

    Alk Rookie

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    It really can't be helped. The only reason anyone has for keeping him at ANY cost is because of a kick he made 5 years ago that IMO could have been made by probably 10 other kickers.
  20. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Which is a shame because the initial post was perfectly reasonable: in case Adam leaves, here's a close look at an alternative. Especially reasonable since there are no standout kickers in the draft.
  21. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I'd keep him at this price while he's playing well - but the important factor isn't going to be the annual salary... its going to be the amount of guaranteed money.

    Overpaying a kicker doesn't break the bank like overpaying for other positions. We're talking about a difference of $500,000.

    What I expect Adam is focused on is guaranteed money. Adam and the Pats have very different perceptions of how long he can perform at his high level and they are giving him an opportunity to test the market for guaranteed money.

    The Pats think the offers will be in line with what they've offered. Adam thinks he can get more from another team and I believe will sincerely give the Pats a chance to match.

    I think the feeling on the Pats part was that such a scenario was going to play out this year or next (when his tag salary would have jumped to the truly unpalatable $3.6 million) so best to let it play out this season when CBA uncertainty might put some limits on the market.

    That was the wisest move for the Pats, but I'll still lament his loss if and when that happens.
  22. Digger44

    Digger44 Rookie

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    yes, it was a fair and good thread but they did it again.
  23. Alk

    Alk Rookie

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    Damn them.....
  24. smg93

    smg93 Rookie

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    Exactly! This thread only sucks to people like you PATSnutme who can't seem to understand the premise of this thread. Obviously you're the type of person who believes more in the name on the back of the jersey rather than the front. You probably whined and complained that the Patriots world was coming to an end when Lawyer Milloy was released. Listen, if you are not able to understand the idea of the thread, no one is forcing you to keep on reading or posting on this subject.

    Once again, allow me to clear up the misconception that this subject is about who is the better kicker. IT IS NOT! Please read the whole post before you post. This thread clearly was framed on the idea that there are options out there in case Adam leaves on his on volition. Meaning, none of us have the ability to make him stay. Only AV can make that decision. I think most of us here want him to stay but that's not our call. It's people like you who either create or promote absurd controversies when there is none.

    Deal with the fact that players join, stay, or leave the PATS every season. Ted Washington, Ty Law, Milloy, Patten, etc have all left or been released. Brady, Bruschi, and Harrison have stayed. Thats just the world of the NFL. That's why true fans understand that cheering for the PATS is all about supporting the team rather than any one individual player. Didn't you understand the point of them being introduced as a team when they won their first superbowl?
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2006
  25. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How did Vanderjaerk do in that situation this year? That kick was at least thirty yards wide to the right. And he was at home, onf turf and in a dome.
  26. Alk

    Alk Rookie

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    Again, you are pointing out one situation. I never even mentioned Vanderjagt's name, you did.
  27. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I chuckle that so many here presume we could get Longwell, let alone for less.

    Ryan is far more vocal than Adam, and a lot less loyal. He wants to be the highest paid kicker in the league. He also prefers to move indoors as a means of extending his career and padding his stats. He is quite open about his feeling that the deal Rackers got in Arizona is proof positive that one man's junk (Cincy cut him loose as an outdoor kicker) is another teams treasure (Az gave him a $3M signing bonus last year).

    Longwell isn't coming here for a contract that keeps him the highest paid (whatever that really means in Belioli speak - and we don't know) but PAYS HIM NO GUARANTEED MONEY OR SIGNING BONUS either. He will have pretty much the same suitors as Adam and probably a very similar pricetag. Thing about comparing apples and apples when the apples are kickers is we're talking the difference of a few hundred thousand as opposed to a few million difference.

    Felger, who was born and raised a cheese head, says this guy is a good outdoor kicker relatively speaking but not nearly in Adam's league. And that's kicking without any real pressure since the Pack has been in also ran status for most of his time there - and when a Packers game is on the line in or out of Lambeau they usually sink or swim on Brett's arm and judgement. Some here also question Adam's KO capacity, but Longwell's leg is a lot shorter both last season and over his career.

    I tend to agree with Felger that if Adam goes over what amounts to a few hundred thousand a year, whether in salary or amortized signing bonus, the next guy will do fine - until he misses his first game winning or clinching kick. Then a lot of folks will be singing another tune.
  28. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If Adam goes, I fully expect a veteran street FA and draft choice (or FA from this year's draft class) to compete for the job. It makes no sense to let Adam go, sign a replacement veteran and save less than $1M. However, a minimum salary guy gives us a savings on the order of $2.5M, money that could be used elsewhere.

    I'm not arguing whether the difference in kickers is worth the savings, just that to have real savings we likely won't be signing a name veteran IMO.
  29. Alk

    Alk Rookie

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    There is only one real answer to this whole mess.

    [​IMG]
  30. Alk

    Alk Rookie

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    I point and laugh at people who chuckle.

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