Adam…Be careful of what you wish for!

[shatch62]

Adam…Be careful of what you wish for!

Right now Adam Vinatieri has one of the best gigs in sports. He is by far the biggest kicker in the game. In a recent Sporting News, it was summed up perfect. Vinatieri is a rock star in New England. The blurb also said he would be crazy to leave. I know he is in his early 30s and this might be his last chance to get a huge contract but he also better think about his legacy. Does it make sense to him to go to – say Dallas – for an extra $500,000 a year? How about an extra $750,000. Maybe. But he won’t be the legend there that he is here. There he will be a famous athlete. Here he is a God. Will he get Papa Gino like endorsement deals there? Maybe…maybe not. Look at a guy like Mo Vaughn. Here he was the toast of the town. After he took the big money to go to Calafornia he just became another famous guy surrounded by other famous guys. Could be the same deal for Adam.

If he goes for some extra cash I will not think any less of him. He needs to make as much as he feels he is worth. I just hope the extra cash is worth it for him

 

[jeffd]

Right now Adam Vinatieri has one of the best gigs in sports. He is by far the biggest kicker in the game. In a recent Sporting News, it was summed up perfect. Vinatieri is a rock star in New England. The blurb also said he would be crazy to leave. I know he is in his early 30s and this might be his last chance to get a huge contract but he also better think about his legacy. Does it make sense to him to go to – say Dallas – for an extra $500,000 a year? How about an extra $750,000. Maybe. But he won’t be the legend there that he is here. There he will be a famous athlete. Here he is a God. Will he get Papa Gino like endorsement deals there? Maybe…maybe not. Look at a guy like Mo Vaughn. Here he was the toast of the town. After he took the big money to go to Calafornia he just became another famous guy surrounded by other famous guys. Could be the same deal for Adam.

If he goes for some extra cash I will not think any less of him. He needs to make as much as he feels he is worth. I just hope the extra cash is worth it for him

In Dallas he is still in the media spotlight. He will play for a team that has a poor offense and he will probably be kicking more often. Those kicks will be made mostly indoors. That sounds like a formula to add to his legend. BTW, he is already Hall of Fame material and considered among the best all time. He'll do nothing but add to that in Dallas.

 

[Pats726]

As was pointed out in a PFT blurb of a few days agao..those in their 30s need to think more long term. His agent may want to go big contract, whish in the short term is OK..but not the same long term. You are right..he stays here, he is golden for life...how many millions can he make long term in business?? After football?? The agent does not care a dran about that as he isn't making a penny from it..so why not push Adam into a short deal a ways cross the country. Maybe it is short siighted to look at the bucks now and not long term..I think NE will raise the ante but will let him go for megabucks...
but if it's less than a mill..I think Pats raise and call and Adam stays.

 

[mgteich]

I continue to be amazed. You think that it is short-term thinking for Adam to try to get $8M - 10M of guaranteed money. And you believe that accepting a non-guaranteed contract from the patriots is the right long-term decision.

IMHO, you have the situation exactly backward. Adam will solidify his children's lifetime money needs with one more large guaranteed contract.

 

[PATSNUTme]

I continue to be amazed. You think that it is short-term thinking for Adam to try to get $8M - 10M of guaranteed money. And you believe that accepting a non-guaranteed contract from the patriots is the right long-term decision.

IMHO, you have the situation exactly backward. Adam will solidify his children's lifetime money needs with one more large guaranteed contract.

If any team offers any kicker $8-10mil of guaranteed money, that kicker should grab it and run right to the bank.

If that is what we are talking about, I say thanks Adam and goodbye.

We then should go to Europe and hold a "superfoot' contest. Worked pretty well when we got John Smith off the scoccer team.

 

[patchick]

I continue to be amazed. You think that it is short-term thinking for Adam to try to get $8M - 10M of guaranteed money. And you believe that accepting a non-guaranteed contract from the patriots is the right long-term decision.

IMHO, you have the situation exactly backward. Adam will solidify his children's lifetime money needs with one more large guaranteed contract.

I'm usually one who argues that staying in one place has long-term social and economic benefits for the player. But I'm with mgteich on this one...it's not a question of total dollars, it's guaranteed dollars. Adam seems like a smart guy. He knows how much the endorsements earn him. But he also knows this is his single best chance for one monster check, his to keep even if he tears up his knee in training camp and never sees game action again.

What's more, I think his legend in New England is secure. If someday he does make it to the hall of fame, it's quite obviously in a Patriots jersey. So long, and thanks for the memories.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

On what planet to kickers get $8-10M in guaranteed money?

The Patriots are in the right area code on Adam if as indicated they have already offered him a contract that would keep him the highest paid by some measure. So it's reasonable to assume they offered him something in the $2.5M per year range. The problem is they offered no guaranteed money (SB) and we don't know what length of contract they offered. They are apparently willing to let the market set his market. I hear people throw around wild numbers like Dallas may offer $5M a year. Jones may be flashy but he isn't stupid.

The top compensation marks for a kicker to date are $10.5M for 5 years on length and AAV and $3M on up front bonus on a 4 year deal to Rackers. Adam is likely looking for something a little north of both those marks - say 5 years $12-13M and a $3M+ SB. He did say he would have been OK with the franchise tag this season so that tells me that figure was in his SB range.

Dallas is a huge market with a desperate need for a reliable kicker - they missed the playoffs this year because of 3 games they didn't win by a missed FG margin. He can recoup the Papa Gino's money. Where he would lose out would be several years down the road in retirement opportunities and endorsements. But as someone here already said, thirty somethings don't always think that long range and player agents are seldom still involved in those down the road dealings.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

The extra money that Adam might be compensated for now could be invested to easily offset any future endorsement monies he might lose by leaving. And who's to say those future endorsement deals ever materialize. As my Grandpa used to say "it's all a rumour until it's in your pocket"

 

[smg93]

One of the points of the PFT story was that his agent doesn't care about the money he makes after his playing days are over. I doubt that actually, because if I was a smart agent I would make sure that I would line up endorsements for him even after he retires. If I were a player, I'd let my agent do that as well because I don't need the distraction of having to answer calls from companies and read all the proposals since it only costs me 3%.

 

[MagicMarker]

I don't blame Adam for wanting to go into free agency. I would, too.

But, I have to say, unless the difference in money were HUGE,I'd stay in New England. Being a professional athlete is not just what you do, it's who you are. It's being loved every where you go. It's being a local icon. If he stays here, he'll get that for the rest of his life. If he goes, it's just not the same.

If he leaves, he never gets that back.

 

[patchick]

One of the points of the PFT story was that his agent doesn't care about the money he makes after his playing days are over. I doubt that actually, because if I was a smart agent I would make sure that I would line up endorsements for him even after he retires. If I were a player, I'd let my agent do that as well because I don't need the distraction of having to answer calls from companies and read all the proposals since it only costs me 3%.

An agent is not necessarily a manager who handle's a players endorsements. And if they do, I believe they get more than 3%. 3% is the NFLPA limit for commissions on contracts, not a limit on managers' fees for personal appearances, etc.

It's worth noting that 3% is an extraordinarily low agent fee, lower than the other major sports and FAR lower than commissions in other industries. (E.g., the standard literary agent contract is 15%.)

 

[Pats726]

If that is what we are talking about, I say thanks Adam and goodbye. We then should go to Europe and hold a "superfoot' contest. Worked pretty well when we got John Smith off the scoccer team.

"Superfoot" was a Sports Huddle (Eddie Andelman) search for a Patriots kicker.....his name was Walker..he played Austrailian football...and he never made it. John Smith happened to get signed around then but had NOTHING to do with superfoot.
I would agree 8 mill??? See you..enjoy!!! That is way way more than any kicker should ever get..but if some team is paying him that much GO FOR IT!!

 

[DarrylS]

I don't blame Adam for wanting to go into free agency. I would, too.

But, I have to say, unless the difference in money were HUGE,I'd stay in New England. Being a professional athlete is not just what you do, it's who you are. It's being loved every where you go. It's being a local icon. If he stays here, he'll get that for the rest of his life. If he goes, it's just not the same.

If he leaves, he never gets that back.

I agree completely in any other town he has NFL recognition, but here he is a legend and everyone knows his face. He can pretty much write his own ticket here in terms of endorsement. If he goes to Dallas, for example, and hits a dry spell they will not have the patience or memory we all have here.

 

[flutie2phelan]

.... If I were a player, I'd let my agent do that as well because I don't need the distraction of having to answer calls from companies and read all the proposals since it only costs me 3%.

You sound as if these propositions are flying over a player's transom all day long.
But shouldn't call-waiting and an extra postal carrier on the route ...
still be able to handle all the extra traffic?

 

[mgteich]

f2p,

I wouldn't mind answering and returning all of Adam's calls for $300K for the next few weeks.

Obviosuly an agent does lots more.

You sound as if these propositions are flying over a player's transom all day long.
But shouldn't call-waiting and an extra postal carrier on the route ...
still be able to handle all the extra traffic?

 

[Pats726]

I continue to be amazed. You think that it is short-term thinking for Adam to try to get $8M - 10M of guaranteed money. And you believe that accepting a non-guaranteed contract from the patriots is the right long-term decision.

IMHO, you have the situation exactly backward. Adam will solidify his children's lifetime money needs with one more large guaranteed contract.

Short term...a few years..he could be a legend if he stays in NE..and be set for life..and more money than short term..let him go to Dallas or some other place and see how much non-football money he makes..agents always look for that big deal becuas ethat is money in THEIR pocket..not the larger picture which IMO he should be thinking about..but again..in many people's opinion..any of these players could be set for life with a mil total...

 

[smg93]

You sound as if these propositions are flying over a player's transom all day long.
But shouldn't call-waiting and an extra postal carrier on the route ...
still be able to handle all the extra traffic?

Well, if his popular enough believe me all those things add up. I know he's not Tiger Woods, but TW gets offers like these every single day. That's why he's got IMG handling all of that for him.

 

[shatch62]

MY point

I don't blame Adam for wanting to go into free agency. I would, too.

But, I have to say, unless the difference in money were HUGE,I'd stay in New England. Being a professional athlete is not just what you do, it's who you are. It's being loved every where you go. It's being a local icon. If he stays here, he'll get that for the rest of his life. If he goes, it's just not the same.

If he leaves, he never gets that back.

This was what I was saying. I have no issue with him going to another team if he is blown away by an offer. I was just saying that here he is "the guy" and there he will be one of the guys. How many #4 jersesy do you see at Gillette? Think they will sell that well in GB or Dallas? I doubt it. If he goes I wish him all the best but I think if he stay he - if he wants to - will be the voice of the Pats on the radio after he retires.

 

[Fanfrom1960]

If any team offers any kicker $8-10mil of guaranteed money, that kicker should grab it and run right to the bank.

If that is what we are talking about, I say thanks Adam and goodbye.

We then should go to Europe and hold a "superfoot' contest. Worked pretty well when we got John Smith off the scoccer team.

I'd forgotten that was the way Smith was discovered, but could they do a rerun of the snow plow field goal with the new guy?

 

[smg93]

An agent is not necessarily a manager who handle's a players endorsements. And if they do, I believe they get more than 3%. 3% is the NFLPA limit for commissions on contracts, not a limit on managers' fees for personal appearances, etc.

It's worth noting that 3% is an extraordinarily low agent fee, lower than the other major sports and FAR lower than commissions in other industries. (E.g., the standard literary agent contract is 15%.)

Yep, I realize that an agent isn't necessarily a manager. It's just that the PFT story discounts all possibility that an agent may manage the player affairs beyond his contract to an NFL team. I merely wanted to introduce the idea that maybe Adam's or another player's agent is also his "manager" for other contracts.

You may be right about 3% being a low fee but then again in Investment Banking, a 3% advisory fee would be extremely huge.