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Active duty soldiers quite split on war

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PressCoverage, Jan 1, 2007.

  1. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    so much for those overconfident claims that US personnel over there are all unamimously gung ho! about things over there...

    POLL: Active Duty U.S. Soldiers Disapprove Of Bush Handling Of War, Do Not Support Escalation
    [​IMG]

    The Military Times released a new poll yesterday of 6,000 active duty U.S. military personnel. The results were revealing. Some highlights:

    – Only 35 percent said they approve of the way President Bush is handling the war, while 42 percent said they disapproved.

    – 50 percent believe success in Iraq is likely, down from 83 percent in 2004.

    – 38 percent believe the United States should send more troops to Iraq. 39 percent believe we should maintain current levels or reduce the number of troops, including 13 percent who support complete withdrawal.

    – 72 percent believe the military is “stretched too thin to be effective.”

    – 47 percent disagree with President Bush’s mantra that the war in Iraq is part of the war against terrorism, while the same percentage agree.

    – Only 41 percent of the military said the U.S. should have gone to war in Iraq in the first place, down from 65 percent in 2003. That closely reflects the beliefs of the general population today — 45 percent agreed in a recent USA Today/Gallup poll.

    – 52 percent approve of the overall job President Bush is doing, down from 71 percent in 2004.

    – 63 percent say the senior military leadership has the best interests of the troops at heart. That number is lower from President Bush (48 percent) and lower still for civilian military leadership (32 percent) and Congress (23 percent).
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2007
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Blame it on the drive by media, the Democratic traitors or anyone besides our enlightened commander in chief.. everyone else is responsible for this, let the spin and lies begin. Start with the Dems voted for it, then go to the media reported it biased and then finish it up with links of Iraq to Al Queada and weapons of mass destruction. Try to confuse everyone , and then discredit the Army Times as being biased or having a hidden agenda. Throw in a dash Pelosi, Kerry, Kennedy, Bill Clinton and Hillary to finish the seasoning.

    Mix it up and you get GWB **** stew.. same old crap different day.
     
  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Now, let's see if the righties support our troops. I don't think many of them ever really cared much about our troops; it was all politics to them. They exploited our troops to express their love for Bush. Now that our troops, who are not the most liberal group, are coming to agree with people like Edwards and other fairly liberal Democrats, will those who support our troops admit they were wrong to back this president? Or will they still say, Only 3000 Americans killed since 9/11, but none on American soil!
     
  4. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    What the war pigs need is another Hitler. The campaign to annoint the Iranian President has lost steam. Maybe we can find a bad guy in Africa. Or maybe the most dangerous criminal out there, Bin Ladin, will do another big hit and we can say the Khazaks helped him. We could take Khazakstan pretty easily and add on to the Empire. Either way, we need a bad guy and fast.
     
  5. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    correction, a bad guy with a commodity to offer that our Texas Teamen gain earn a profit from... there's been plenty of "Hitler's" that Bush-Bush-Reagan-Nixon has turned a blind eye away from and done nothing...
     
  6. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    I'll go with that.
     
  7. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    The soldiers' job is to do what they're told, not to express an opinion on it.

    Their opinion is basically irrelevant to me as their view is biased by 1) what they want to do personally and 2) by missing the forest for the trees as they see their little piece of what's going on.

    I'm not saying they have no right to take part in a poll but they didn't sign up to decide when to fight, they signed up to fight when they're told to.
     
  8. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    That's not the point in this case. The telling thing about this poll is the change over time. It indicates the level of morale relative to earlier on. It is now a police action and occupation and that makes the troops' morale even more crucial to their survival in this sh-thole. How is lack of confidence in the leaders and the mission itself helpful to our troops? What do you suppose is behind the change?

    ...and whose opinion is relevant to you? The Pentagon?, Bush?, the CIA? The opinion of the troops on the ground is the most relevant opinion IMO.
     
  9. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So join the army and give up all of your rights as an american?? Don't see this, if you follow your reasoning why don't they stop their right to express themselves at the Ballot Box?? Not everyone signed up to fight, a few I know signed up for the bennies in the Guard, this whole thing has become a great diversion for the citizen soldier.
     
  10. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Where did I say that ? I did not say they couldn't express their opinion - just that their opinion is irrelevant in the decision making.
     
  11. BruschiOnTap

    BruschiOnTap On the Game Day Roster

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    Do you understand the concept of soldier morale and its importance in a military effort? Especially when this is a volunteer military; when your life is on the line, do you want to feel confident that you will be deployed in as safe and winnable a situation as possible?

    do you think other people will want to enlist after seeing that soldiers are unhappy with what they've been told to do?
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2007
  12. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    That's irrelevant to my point. The fact is the soldiers' opinions are irrelevant. Whether the military should do more to make them happy for re-enlistments is another issue. Maybe they should maybe they shouldn't. But the soldiers don't get a vote that matters on whether they come home or not.
     
  13. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    When you sign up, you sign up to do what you're told when you're told.
     
  14. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    So let me ask you then, if moral has deteriorated over time, do you think that it is inconceivable to think that 3 years of negative press is partly responsible?

    The reason for the change is a combination of issues. Namely that most units are on their 2nd & 3rd tours. When you've risked your azz & done your job the first time out, and are told you're going back not once more, but twice, me thinks you're going to be a little negative. Also, lets not forget that some 40% of the forces there are National Guard, and not Army regulars. These are soldiers who are a weekend a month, and now are front line troops in a war zone doing involuntary extensions, or a 14 month gig. I can't imagine they're happy. Lastly, we'll be at 4 years come April. I don't know any army that would be content with a war as it grows longer. This isn't spin, it's mere opinion. I don't think you listen to any one group specifically when it comes to stuff like this. I think you need to factor in everything when trying to assess the situation. Lets remember that prior to WW II, and during the first 2 years, the public was very much against the war. The US suffered great losses early on, in a war the public did not favor. I think we all agree that our involvement, and committment was necessary. I'm not trying to say Iraq is WW III, I'm merely trying to point out how a more complete view needs to be taken.
     
  15. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree BF. I don't like expressing that, but my brother and a lot of his friends are vets, and I tell them that all the time. That when you sign, you do the time. Your John Han**** makes you the govt's *****. Read the fine print, and think twice before you do it. Like anything in life, there is a certain sense of accountability that comes with making a decision. I respect soldiers immensely. They're braver men than I. However, that's part of the job. I can't imagine anyone would be happy in a warzone.
     
  16. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Right, in no way am I trying to demean them or talk down about them. But it's a contract like anything else - there can be great benefits to a military career but people need to understand that signing up means going to fight when you're told to. If you don't like it, too bad. And whether they should be told to in Iraq is a different discussion. But they're told to fight so they fight - they don't get to vote on it.
     
  17. BruschiOnTap

    BruschiOnTap On the Game Day Roster

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    Who said there would be a vote??? It's simply the rank-and-file's lack of confidence in the leadership's decisions and the objectives of this occupation. If they're going to fight and possibly die, they want it to be for a good reason. Wouldn't you? It's not just about coming home, it's about equipment shortages, vague mission objectives/goals, poor returns on their labor investment, and many soldiers putting in more tours of duty than expected; From their viewpoint, it probably doesn't feel like they are making a difference, and it might even feel like they are incapable of making a difference; car bombs, civilian casualties, lack of public support from their own country and in the country they are occupying. Plus, as RW pointed out, this occupation is really starting to drag out and victories are getting fewer and further between. At the start they were told to expect things would be quick. Would you want to shut up and deal?
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2007
  18. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    And all I ever said was their lack of confidence was irrelevant.
     
  19. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I think we all agree about why the soldiers poll numbers would increase in a negative direction. All BF and I are saying is that a soldiers job is to stfu, and obey orders. I dislike saying that, but it's the unfortunate reality of the job. Obviously, those in charge need to take into consideration the mental state of those serving, and I'm sure they do. Anyhow, anyone joining the military should see what's going on and decide accordingly. Someone who's joined since 2003 and complains realy should have their head examined.
     
  20. BruschiOnTap

    BruschiOnTap On the Game Day Roster

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    I dunno, I think it says volumes about the situation on the ground there...

    As for stfu and do what you're told, I didn't get the impression from these posts that soldiers were being openly defiant and disobedient when given orders. It was just a poll. If that's the case then things must either be really bad or the soldiers must be really dumb because they knew what they were signing up for. It all boils down to a morale issue, though, and it's starting to look like just that, an issue.
     

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