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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by AzPatsFan, Mar 29, 2013.

  1. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    Bill Belichick often does differently than what he says. You have to see what he does, or doesn't do, to ascertain his own current and future plans.

    I think Belichick's actions are leading to but one conclusion. He views Ryan Mallett as THE current qualified candidate to be the Brady successor. All the attempts by draftnik desires to secure another #5 or #6 draft pick, via trading him have come to nothing.


    I think Mike Lombardi at the Browns seriously wanted to trade for Mallett, and was prepared to pay for it. All his inquiries were ignored and rebuffed.

    Belichick knows that Brady's time is coming. He also know that to win in this league you must have a franchise QB, which means losing seasons to position your self to draft such a franchise QB candidate. Or you need a pair of First Round picks to trade yourself into such a position. Once in a blue moon, a premium QB falls into your lap to draft. He thinks it has certainly occured once with Brady in the 6th; and and lightning may have struck twice, possibly with Mallett in the 3rd.

    In any case the transition will not be easy; and the Fans will rebell as they did in Cleveland, when hometown hero Bernie Kosar went Over the Hill. The hubbub can destroy a team and its Front Office. Having seen it up close and personal, BB is preparing for the Day silently and assiduously.


    Mallett espite going inot his third season, is really entering only his second Training Camp, with this rookie season Training Camp cut short because of the lockout. But some things are plain when not viewed by the warped lenses of people, with axes pre-ground, in search of a storyline.


    1. Malletts athletic abilities with throwing the football remain unchallenged and re-affirmed. He does in fact have a rocket arm, perhaps the best in the league. He has even learned to modulate it some, in short pass situations.


    2. The assertation that Mallett had a troubled personality and defects as a team player and team leader, have been clearly laid to rest by Bill Belichick, himself. In two years working with him, Mallett has displayed the desire to show up early, to study hard, to learn, and to keep his mouth shut. So he has accomplished all the things that downgraded him from selection in the First round as insubstantial innuendo.


    3. Mallett is a pocket passer, with little thought or ability to run, like Brady. When the fad of the running QB fades with the inevitable torn ACLs, BB will still have a QB backup and candidate successor with premium attributes.


    4. We can expect him to see more playing time in Training camp tempered by the need to acclimate Brady with his new receiving corps.

    So I could see another case of purposeful obfuscation and Poise testing as was done with Cassell in the training Camp of 2008. It is likely that RM will be assigned the WR scrubs and the backup offensive linemen, and told to make do with them. Leading to to a "poor" pre-season performance, just as was done with Cassell, after they were sure he understood the Offense, as manifest during the regular season. This was done to see if he can maintain POISE in tough circumstances. Of course the marginal results will lead the professional Doomsters to call Mallett a failure, and to predict his dismissal from the team.

    5. Belichick is in the midst of changing his Pass Offense. He is seeking a more broad based and perhaps, more horizontal and vertical passing Offense, and the receivers to perform in such an Offense. It will take a whole season or more to perfect such a plan. Is it just a coincidence that this change makes more use of Mallett's talents?

    I think NOT. :snob:
  2. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I loved the Mallett pick, despite most posters complaining when it happened. I just don't think he has done anything to warrant a 1st or 2nd round pick to this point, as some posters act like these 1-2 picks are thrown about like frisbees.

    I too, have considered what you're saying. The obvious question would be what happens after next season? It seems as though you're coming to the conclusion that we're going to pay Mallett acceptable/good backup money to stay on here, even though he'll likely want to move on to a starting opportunity, which he probably won't get here for another 3-4-5 yrs.

    If they are fine with keeping him as the backup, I'd be very happy. It's certainly something I've considered, but the financial aspects argue against that, as does Malletts likely desire to compete for a starting role somewhere else.

    If they're going to try and lock him up, they may as well do it this time next year then. I'm just not 100% convinced that is the plan. That said, it definitely should be considered at the same time.
  3. Archeryaddict12

    Archeryaddict12 Rookie

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    Brady still has a lot more left in the tank IMO. If he doesn't get pounded he should last past 2017.
  4. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    You could be right, but in theory we could still keep Mallett as his backup through his career. Of course there would have to be some variables and concerns sorted out, and they'd both have to be on the same page also, but it's possible that it's under consideration.

    I wouldn't mind it at all. I'd actually prefer it. I just see a lot of obstacles in the way of that occurring, that's all.
  5. Brady6

    Brady6 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    The reality is that unless Brady suffers god forbid a serious injury Mallet is not going to see the field because Brady know that if Mallet takes the field and has success he could suffer the same fate he served up to Bledsoe.
  6. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    Brady was not elite when the Patriots won in 2001. However, they did have a stong defense. I did not consider either of the Giant qb's elite, when BB was defensive coordinator and won Superbowls. Not trying to dispute your post, but the gist of your post is your trying to analyze BB, or assume what he's thinking.
    Let's wait until draft day and see what plays out.
  7. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    True, but the OP's point is that he believes there is a decent chance of keeping Mallett on another deal to be the backup and eventually take over as the starter here.

    That is the plan he envisions, or at least feels warrants consideration.

    I would love to see it, I just don't know about the finances involved and whether or not Mallett would agree to a new extension to stay as the backup.
  8. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    With all due respect Scout, what is going to happen on draft day that would point to the possibility of Mallett remaining here on an extension to potentially take over as our starting QB when Brady's career is done?

    I don't think we'll know the answer to this question until his next 2 yrs play out and he either becomes a free agent or the OP's theory comes true and Belichick extends him.
  9. voluntarysaftey

    voluntarysaftey Rookie

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    Mallet will not be the starting QB for the Patriots unless Brady gets hurt

    If you're the Patriots, and Believe Mallet is a Pro-Bowl QB, then you do not extend Brady.

    And if you're the Patriots, in 2 years, you're not going to pay Mallet starter-level money, or franchise him, to sit on the bench for 3 more years.

    If you are Mallet, when you hit free agency, you do not re-sign with the Patriots so you can ride the bench for another 3 years before getting your shot. You go to a team that has no starting qb or a crappy one and you play for a chance to become the starter so that you can cash in big on the next contract

    I think at this point, the Patriots would either be happy trading Mallet for a first rounder (which I don't see anyone offering), or having him be a cheap backup for 2 more years and then letting him go.
  10. Brady6

    Brady6 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    That's not really true you can be a pro bowl QB and still not be TB.
  11. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    That is probably the highest percentage of the options in terms of what actually happens, in my opinion.
  12. Brady6

    Brady6 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    I really don't see them turning to Mallet when his is 30 years old only to have to basically turn the position over in 3-5 years all over again.
  13. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I'd have to guess that you're certainly right with all of your points.

    Like I said, I think there would be difficulties in overcoming some obstacles and concerns regarding pay structure, etc. On top of that Mallett would almost be guaranteed to want to compete for a starter's job somewhere else.

    I think the question is whether or not Mallett would be okay with waiting another year or two on his extension here, if promised a shot to be in the mix for a starting job, and even then there'd be questions about the compensation in pay.

    I think that it's a reasonable enough idea in theory, but that there are some questions that would point to this being an unlikely possibility unless both parties would somehow agree to it.
  14. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    I call bull****, Mallett is brutal. He plays behind God, Robert Kraft could be Brady's backup.
  15. Ozymandias

    Ozymandias Rookie

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    Mallett's status is a peculiar case indeed. He's merely a back-up with limited film to gauge his progress as an starting caliber QB at this point. Until he's thrown into the fire we won't know how far he's come along. Even if he has great practice habits and all that until he's in the games in pressure situations, we don't know how he'd react to that.

    By the same parallel we didn't know what was there with Brady. He stepped in and never looked back. Some guys excel in these situations while others fold pretty quickly. The great part about the NFL is that it exposes either traits fairly early in the process.

    The thing to keep in mind is that anyone is replaceable, even first ballot HOFers can be replaced. Brady's not immune to this reality. His age is definitely a factor at this point and he's closer to the end than the beginning. If his play starts to dip and decline rapidly then you cannot seriously expect a coaching staff as rigid as Belichick's wouldn't plan to move on from him if they have a better option in place whether its Mallett or otherwise. There's no room sentiments in a cut-throat business like the NFL, just ask Peyton Manning or Joe Montana.

    The good thing is that this hasn't occured, yet, though one day it likely will. Hopefully sooner rather than later. And perhaps Mallett could be the answer if that's the case. This training camp/preseason will be big for him. If he ever expects to earn a starter's job here or elsewhere now's the time to show it.
  16. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    I shouldn't have stated "played out" on draft day. My thoughts were if something were to happen, their is a better chance it happening on draft day. In addition, never say never that BB doesn't draft a qb.
  17. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I follow you now. You're speaking in terms of a potential trade I think, and stating that the time of the draft may be when that happens.

    I just don't see a trade happening because no one is going to part with a pick high enough to warrant Belichick shipping him somewhere else. Of course there certainly is a debate regarding that though.
  18. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :wha: :eek:
  19. Ozymandias

    Ozymandias Rookie

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    Oops, I messed that one up big time. Obviously, what I meant to say was "later rather than sooner." Thanks for spotting that, as I don't want to give people the wrong idea about me and all.
  20. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree with you.

    I would note that I value the backup position higher than most. I'm not even tempted by a 3rd round draft choice, unless Belichick truly believes that Kafka is an adequate backup.

  21. Get it shawtaay

    Get it shawtaay Rookie

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    The bolded is very true, and its why I don't understand why teams hang on to bad quarterbacks who were ostensibly good prospects. How often does a QB who doesn't show the ability to be a top quarterback within their first year go on to become a good quarterback? Practically never.


    As for Mallett, I hated it at the time because I really wanted someone else. But it was a prudent idea to try and squeeze him into draft picks - the climate after the Kolb/Cassel trades really turned and made it impossible.
  22. TheBostonStraggler

    TheBostonStraggler Rookie

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    Interesting speculation from the OP. Ultimately, speculation aside, I guess we will see what BB's thinking is when it comes time to re-sign RM (or not). I think that is the only time you really know what BB's thinking is. However, I think the speculation is focused on C when A and B are more germane/first up. No matter how much BB is planning, TFB being around and effective for let's say 4 more years.....it makes the Mallet speculation moot. Mallett, I doubt, will want to continue to be a backup for 4 more years. This answers the question of what will happen with Mallett. And if BB thinks Brady will be around for 4 more years, we probably will see a QB selected with an upper pick next year. Mallett appears to have come just a few years before the window will be open for the Patriots' QB spot.
    As I see it the speculation that comes first is how long does Brady want to continue playing? On top of that is Brady's effectiveness level? It is hard to imagine but what if Brady is outplayed/skills are obviously eroding in 2015 camp/season? Even harder to imagine than that but what if it happens even quicker and it starts to become evident in the 2014 season? Cap limitations aside, question 1 is whether Brady is the guy until he decides he is going to hang them up, or do the Patriots start committing to Mallett/a new guy and we start seeing him get more time/attention?
  23. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    TBS,

    The transition from one proven QB to another is never easy.

    Unless there is a clear career ending injury, the most likely case is just a constant erosion of the skills of the present occupier of the position. That makes the call on replacement a very unclear situation with lots of debate. Belichick certainly went through just as vociferous but lighter case when trying to replace a seemingly healthy, but no longer quite as effective, home town hero, Bernie Kosar.

    What do you expect the fan reaction to be to sitting down a certain future HOF QB? Or the media commentary complete with the divisive Felger-like jackals to lead it on? Could even a Bill Belichick withstand the fan fury?

    Everyone seems to assume Brady will play out his contract through and until 2017. He may, but he won't be the Tom Brady the fans have deified. At best he may share time, but I am not convinced that such a course is even feasible, or desired. BB certainly didn't try timesharing, with Kosar or Bledsoe. Nor would TB likely be amenable to such a situation, even if it would extend his career by a few years. OTOH, Tom Brady recognizing reality, chose a contract that would make a time sharing or platooning situation, an economic possibility.

    That transition is coming, and probably a lot sooner than some fans will want to acknowledge. Like Montana, Manning has already gone to his retirement home, while extending his career a few more years, taking the money and running, as the Colts made the transition to Andrew Luck.

    It is not certain by any means that Ryan Malett will be, or will succeed, as the successor. But the team is getting stronger, as it has been rebuilt top to botom under Belichick. Whoever is the successor is, he will have a team around him able to compete and contend.

    Tom Brady ever the realist, accepted that he couldn't or wouldn't be paid at the same rate as his glory years and accepted a guaranteed contract to ensure that there was little monetary push, to send him elsewhere. But that still makes him a very expensive backup, when the transition begins.

    Peyton Manning did that transition at the same age that Tom Brady will be, this season. He chose to take the money and run though, so he had to move on.
  24. Gumby

    Gumby Rookie

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    I stopped reading where I left off- and just skimmed the rest. ARGUMENT FAIL. To quote you: "I THINK NOT"

    ACTIONS: BB just extended TB at the cost of $57M out til TB is 40.

    SITUATION:
    a. RM will be a RFA or UFA come next year (i forget which).
    b. So long TB has not had a CATASTROPHIC injury he has missed about 20 snaps, and probably not that many minutes in almost 10 years (blatant exageration intended).

    RESULT: Either which way - if Mallet has ANY KIND OF BURNING ITCH to be a STARTER; he will KNOW, so long TB is healthy it AINT HAPPENING IN NE.

    So, either he is willing to bide his time for 4-5 years and earn pennies on the dollar of what he is worth - (IF HE THINKS HE IS GOOD ENOUGH to start) which is HIGHLY UNLIKELY, Or he will NOT be interested in talking to NE about being a clipboard holder, or he doesn't have the confidence to be a STARTER - in which case WHAT DO WE WANT HIM FOR LONG-TERM????

    Mallett may very well have been a good successor for TB, but he came 2 years too early.

    IMO BB just thinks his value as a BACKUP with experience in the system in the event TB goes down for 2-4 games is MUCH GREATER than any rd 2-4 pick that someone is willing to toss his way. And most posters here seem to think a Rd 2 pick would be highly unlikely.

    So, using the evidence that BB wouldnt take a trade is IMO - NO INDICATION of RM's long term outlook -tenure with the team.
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2013
  25. goheels22002

    goheels22002 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Belichick and the Krafts operate like Bill Walsh and Eddie DeBartolo in SF during their heyday. I would not be surprised if they pick up a guy like Steve Young who was elite coming out of college and played in unsuccessful situations for a few years, but has experience and smarts to do the job here. Steve Young was acquired pre-salary cap.

    I thought they might make a move for Alex Smith but his price was too high. Ryan Fitzpatrick is interesting to me. There aren't many other guys like that. Could he work out with this team better than the Bills? Tough to say.
  26. The_Riddler

    The_Riddler Rookie

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    Great post. I agree, I think BB knows Mallett is the future. I believe he is also and I think he is going to show this in a big way when he gets his chance in the pre season.

    He has a tremendous work ethic. I remember him staying voluntarily after camp sessions ended working on his game with the WRs.

    He has all the physical tool and film knowledge he needs at this point. Now he just needs the reps to fine tune his game.

    Mike Lombardi is a great, great talent evaluator, so the fact that he was linked to a serious Mallet interest speaks volumes to what he sees in Mallet's future.

    I am in the #KeepRyanMalletInFoxboro camp
  27. Gumby

    Gumby Rookie

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    Riddler, I could have sworn I have seen that post before, DID you copy it from someone else?

    oh, here it is:

    (Apologies to Riddler for making up the 'archive')- but I have heard this tune/lived through this before - about how guys who have thrown practically 0 nfl-REAL SEASON passes are going to be the next coming of Dan Marino or Fran Tarkenton.

    Michael Bishop - Bledsoe
    Rohan Davey - Bledsoe
    Kliff Klingsbury, etc etc....
    .... WHERE ARE THEY NOW?

    Apologies to RM too, he COULD BE GOOD - Point is - nobody KNOWS, at this point I would say BB doesnt even KNOW and won't until RM has to CARRY THE LOAD as an ACKNOWLEDGED STARTER. pre-season MEANS JACK and TB will not give him a chance - hell not even in blowouts.
  28. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    Mallett will be a FA at some point. If he's good enough for there to be any consideration of dumping Brady for him, he's also good enough to get a lot better deal in FA than being Brady's backup.
  29. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Just curious, what kind of contract do you expect Mallett to sign in 2015?
  30. tonyto3690

    tonyto3690 Banned

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    This is the same exact idiocy we heard with Kevin O'Connel, and Brian Hoyer, and so on. He's a decent backup who hasn't shown ANYTHING, let alone shown he can be a franchise QB.

    This is akin to saying Trevor Scott is going to be an elite DE next season.

    Just ridiculous homerism and overvaluing of our players.

    If we ended up getting a high 3rd round pick for him I'd be ecstatic.

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