Aaron Hernandez, the double homicide charge, and the 2014 cap

[chasa]

That seems borderline incompetent or sloppy at best from guys with lots of league and business experience. What were they thinking?

if i had to go out on a limb, id say they were thinking:

"Hey this kid was a risk coming out of college for smoking some weed, but hes been here for 3 years, hes never caused any trouble, never tested positive for any drugs, and hes the type of dynamic player who should have been a first round pick. With both him and gronkowski we could have two young stud receiving options that our fans always scream for us to have, lets lock them both up for long term contracts now, at what is going to be below market when they hit free agency since we have the extra cash, and with this new young defense we should win a couple of superbowls before the contracts end"

THIS JUST IN

BB isnt a ******* mind reader, he did was was best for the team with the information available. This isnt a titus young situation where you had a mentally unstable jackass wreaking havock all over boston, this was a guy who, while a loner had not caused any trouble and did his ******* job, and did it well.

 

[BelichickFan]

I don't fault the Pats for taking the talented but known troubled TE prospect as a mid round risky pick. Had he crashed and burned day one it would have been expected for a pick in that round. I DO fault BB/Kraft for giving him a big cap new contract with no conduct clause whatsoever that would have voided these future cap hits. That seems borderline incompetent or sloppy at best from guys with lots of league and business experience. What were they thinking?

It's a great mystery no doubt. Everyone blows draft picks but this was the more unforced of unforced errors. The only answer is the obvious one, somehow Hernandez just fooled them.

If he were a FA and they had to make a decision I could see it. As it was, it's just the ultimate head scratcher.

 

[Miguel]

But aren't they withholding a deferred signing bonus that counts against the cap right now? Someone wrote it's $3.5m

Yes but AH has already filed a grievance.

 

[chasa]

It's a great mystery no doubt. Everyone blows draft picks but this was the more unforced of unforced errors. The only answer is the obvious one, somehow Hernandez just fooled them.

If he were a FA and they had to make a decision I could see it. As it was, it's just the ultimate head scratcher.

What did Hernandez do wrong prior to this event happening?

Any police encounters? drug tests failed? fights with staff? throwing up middle fingers at fans during games? drunk driving arrests?

Anything?

Can someone go back and bump a thread where all you "what a wasted draft pick" "How could BB be so stupid" folks were blasting Hernandez for something he did BEFORE this all came out?

Heres a fun thread, Seems like everyone thought it was a pretty good idea at the time: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...nt-office-killed-off-season.html#.Ut_fvRAo5hE

 

[BelichickFan]

What did Hernandez do wrong prior to this event happening?

Any police encounters? drug tests failed? fights with staff? throwing up middle fingers at fans during games? drunk driving arrests?

Anything?

Can someone go back and bump a thread where all you "what a wasted draft pick" "How could BB be so stupid" folks were blasting Hernandez for something he did BEFORE this all came out?

He slipped to the 4th round because of concerns of behavior, drugs and gang affiliations. He was high risk or we wouldn't have gotten him in the 4th round.

To sign him to a massive, long term contract without appropriate safeguards (having much smaller bonuses and much bigger annual salaries) means he must have really, really fooled them. He came into the league with issues, rumor and innuendo and when he signed this contract he had likely shot two people only a month earlier.

I love Bob, Bill and Nick but they obviously got fooled very badly despite knowing his past.

 

[BrickPat]

As an aside you would think the NFL and players association could have some mutually agreeable common sense language about issues like this going forward.

For example why can't the cap hit, for lack of a better term, be held in escrow until a court disposition is reached? If a player is convicted of murder the team shouldn't be made to suffer a cap penalty even if they're still contractually obligated to pay the killer. If he is found not guilty or the charges are otherwise dismissed then the team can be hit with the cap regardless of whether is released (from team).

 

[chasa]

He slipped to the 4th round because of concerns of behavior, drugs and gang affiliations. He was high risk or we wouldn't have gotten him in the 4th round.

To sign him to a massive, long term contract without appropriate safeguards (having much smaller bonuses and much bigger annual salaries) means he must have really, really fooled them. He came into the league with issues, rumor and innuendo and when he signed this contract he had likely shot two people only a month earlier.

I love Bob, Bill and Nick but they obviously got fooled very badly despite knowing his past.

He shot two people and nobody knew it was him. not the patriots, not the police, nobody.

Hernandez had gotten into ZERO amount of trouble since being drafted, so unless you are planning on Kraft putting 53 spy satellites into orbit and having one for each player, i really dont see how you are going to keep tabs on everyone 24/7

 

[upstater1]

He slipped to the 4th round because of concerns of behavior, drugs and gang affiliations. He was high risk or we wouldn't have gotten him in the 4th round.

To sign him to a massive, long term contract without appropriate safeguards (having much smaller bonuses and much bigger annual salaries) means he must have really, really fooled them. He came into the league with issues, rumor and innuendo and when he signed this contract he had likely shot two people only a month earlier.

I love Bob, Bill and Nick but they obviously got fooled very badly despite knowing his past.

He slipped because of marijuana.

As for gang affiliations, you've just described a huge chunk of the NFL. Willie McGinest had them his entire Patriots career.

 

[BelichickFan]

He shot two people and nobody knew it was him. not the patriots, not the police, nobody.

Hernandez had gotten into ZERO amount of trouble since being drafted, so unless you are planning on Kraft putting 53 spy satellites into orbit and having one for each player, i really dont see how you are going to keep tabs on everyone 24/7

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I'm not one of those hindsight types. You'll never see me saying "look who we could have drafted in the 4th round" after letting the players play for 3 years and picking out one of the few good 4th round picks.

But to give a huge contract with tons of guaranteed bonus money to a guy with a seriously bad reputation from the past when he was still 2 years from FA was foolhardy at best. I'm not saying they should have known, just that it was an unecessary risk.

 

[Fencer]

Joel Corry tweeted on the 16th - Pats can't get cap relief from anything they don't collect from Hernandez. Any $$ already paid has probably been spent.

Is that truly collect, as in get a check they can deposit in the bank, or is it only a matter of getting a legal judgment against him?

 

[chasa]

I'm not saying they should have known, just that it was an unecessary risk.

Sometimes you have to take risks to be the best.

We drafted him late because he had substance abuse issues, he played 3 years without a single positive test, or any police incidents, he was the youngest tight end in the league after year 3 and was putting up probowl level numbers, the only reason we are talking about this is because he did something nobody outside Miss cleo could have seen coming. even if he gets busted for pot once it would have just been a couple of game suspension,

Nobody saw him allegedly murdering at least 3 people.

 

[BelichickFan]

Sometimes you have to take risks to be the best.

We drafted him late because he had substance abuse issues, he played 3 years without a single positive test, or any police incidents, he was the youngest tight end in the league after year 3 and was putting up probowl level numbers, the only reason we are talking about this is because he did something nobody outside Miss cleo could have seen coming. even if he gets busted for pot once it would have just been a couple of game suspension,

Nobody saw him allegedly murdering at least 3 people.

If he had reached FA I would agree. 2 years away ? No.

 

[chasa]

If he had reached FA I would agree. 2 years away ? No.

if he had reached FA he would be on another team at 8+ million per year, and we would be saying things like "How stupid is BB for letting the second best young tight end walk away, hes 25 years old. we need to get brady some weapons!"

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The only conclusion I could come up with was a reduction in the overall contract value based on the absence of that clause. But the contract was not that low in terms of what the best TEs would earn to justify the exclusion of that provision.

It just seems with the Myra Kraft Foundation donation provision in the contract and all the PR preceding the deal of fiancees and children and new beginnings that the Pats bought into the hype, and somehow believed that would have signaled a lack of trust and somehow break the deal. It seems a very standard clause, and few could argue that it is unreasonable not to commit crimes while with the organization (unlike the Bengals, who I believe actually had incentives built into their contracts for criminal acts).

I think it may well be along those lines, "a reduction in the overall contract value based on the absence of that clause." "Pats bought into the hype, and somehow believed that would have signaled a lack of trust and somehow break the deal." But if so it's a new demarcation for penny wise pound foolish.

I confess that at the time of The Prisoner's re-signing based on his fine conduct, his words embracing organizational culture, etc. I thought to myself that AH was a more mature and stable character than Gronk. I'd say I was wrong.*




* Caveat. I am assuming that Gronk has not secretly been shooting people that we just don't know about.

 

[chasa]

* Caveat. I am assuming that Gronk has not secretly been shooting people that we just don't know about.

I bet all those arm surgeries were just cover ups for bullet removals!

 

[VJCPatriot]

Hernandez Contract - Cap Hit?

So here's what I'd like to know, will the Pats get to amnesty Hernandez's cap hit? Because well obviously the dude is in prison. Can't the Pats get that number removed from their cap figure?

I'm sure the Pats aren't paying him anymore since he is a convicted felon. Surely there must be some procedure to take away his cap hit. I mean the Eagles weren't paying for Vick either when he was in prison for the dog ring thing, right? Can some capologist speak up on this issue? I think it would be downright unfair to count AH's cap hit against the Pats 2014 cap and moving forward.

 

[everlong]

Re: Hernandez Contract - Cap Hit?

The Falcons not the Eagles did get 3M in cap relief however they also kept him on the roster to spread out the cap hit and didn't get the cap relief until he repayed part of his signing bonus and was signed by the Eagles. So even if they get some cap relief it might not be for a few years.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Hernandez Contract - Cap Hit?

If the there was no contract violation at the time he signed his contract, then the patriots are and should be on the hook for his amortized bonus.

Yes, the patriots would have had more rights had they waited a couple of months before cutting him. The team just wanted out immediately for PR reasons. They decided to take the $7.5M dead money hit, rather than spreading the money.

So here's what I'd like to know, will the Pats get to amnesty Hernandez's cap hit? Because well obviously the dude is in prison. Can't the Pats get that number removed from their cap figure?

I'm sure the Pats aren't paying him anymore since he is a convicted felon. Surely there must be some procedure to take away his cap hit. I mean the Eagles weren't paying for Vick either when he was in prison for the dog ring thing, right? Can some capologist speak up on this issue? I think it would be downright unfair to count AH's cap hit against the Pats 2014 cap and moving forward.

 

[Patsgofor4]

Re: Hernandez Contract - Cap Hit?

The best case scenario from a cap standpoint would occur if he is indicted for the double murder in the theater district. Because this occurred prior to him signing his contract and receiving his signing bonus, they could potentially recoup the entire bonus and would, I believe, be given substantial cap relief.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Hernandez Contract - Cap Hit?

The best case scenario from a cap standpoint would occur if he is indicted for the double murder in the theater district. Because this occurred prior to him signing his contract and receiving his signing bonus, they could potentially recoup the entire bonus and would, I believe, be given substantial cap relief.

Any idea how this would work? Do they get the relief as soon as he is indicted or is there some sort of appeal they would have to do?

He obviously needs to be indicted first? Any Idea when or if this will happen? I know read somewhere he is the suspected driver and possibly even the shooter but not sure how concrete it was or wasn't.