A Year To Develop An Offensive Lineman?

[Richard Camembert]

OK I see DL, specifically DE, as a much more pressing concern than OL.

1. DE in BB's system requires certain uncommon measureables, making these players harder to obtain. The strength of this D must start with at least two monsters up front. Although OL have certain required measureables these aren't as rare as those for DE, making these players easier to obtain later in the draft.

2. It's possible that due to injury neither Warren nor Wright can return to their previous high levels of performance. There's no reason to think that anyone other than Kaczur and Mankins will have substantially decreased performance.

3. The second tier of DL (Brace, Prior, Deaderick, Richard, Weston) have failed to show anything other than flashes. Meanwhile Dante Academy has produced a series of plugin players.

4. The OL has produced consistently high results, at least during the regular season, for several years. Since the departure of Seymour the DL has not. DL failure was a huge reason for the often horrid performance of the D this past year. This unit needs more horses, or grizzlies if we must maintain the conceit.

Not saying we shouldn't go OL with one of our top four. I am saying that right now DL is a huge area of concern, and it will remain so at least until more is heard about the recoveries of Warren, Wright, and Brace, and the possible one-year signing of Warren. I thnk we need to draft a DE early if one of the 5-techs is available.

 

[MaineMan]

Yup, same as last year, when we didn't draft an OG. We were all sure that a deal with Mankins MUST be near.

Given our needs and number of picks in the first 3 rounds, I would strongly prefer for us to draft at least 2 top offensive linemen in the first two rounds. After the top two, I would still be looking to get one of Moffitt, Boling, Ziemba and Kirkpatick.

Consider our team with one of the OT's and Watkins or Weisnewski at 28 and 33 AND Moffitt at 92.

We could have three opportunitie for front seven players a 17 and 60 and 74. We could even use 74 to move up.
=======================================================================

BOTTOM LINE - FIVE GOOD MEN IN THE TOP 100 - FIVE GRIZZLIES (OL, DL or OLB) - WE NEED AT LEAST FOUR
I understand that we have 6 picks. That pick could be used for a RB, WR or traded into 2012. But the real needs are clear: OT, OG, OG/OC, DE and OLB.

And no I would not be hugely disappointed if we got our 2 OL's by 33 and then waited until the 4th or 5th round for our 3rd OL (as patchick has suggested).

IIRC, negotiations with Mankins didn't blow up, at least not publicly, until after the draft (which might have been Frank Bauer waiting for, ahem, "leverage"). No way for us "on the outside" to have any idea, really. Seems like it might have taken the Pats FO by surprise a bit, too. This time around, there's a publicly known problem heading into the draft.

 

[Off The Grid]

OK I see DL, specifically DE, as a much more pressing concern than OL.

1. DE in BB's system requires certain uncommon measureables, making these players harder to obtain. The strength of this D must start with at least two monsters up front. Although OL have certain required measureables these aren't as rare as those for DE, making these players easier to obtain later in the draft.

2. It's possible that due to injury neither Warren nor Wright can return to their previous high levels of performance. There's no reason to think that anyone other than Kaczur and Mankins will have substantially decreased performance.

3. The second tier of DL (Brace, Prior, Deaderick, Richard, Weston) have failed to show anything other than flashes. Meanwhile Dante Academy has produced a series of plugin players.

4. The OL has produced consistently high results, at least during the regular season, for several years. Since the departure of Seymour the DL has not. DL failure was a huge reason for the often horrid performance of the D this past year. This unit needs more horses, or grizzlies if we must maintain the conceit.

Not saying we shouldn't go OL with one of our top four. I am saying that right now DL is a huge area of concern, and it will remain so at least until more is heard about the recoveries of Warren, Wright, and Brace, and the possible one-year signing of Warren. I thnk we need to draft a DE early if one of the 5-techs is available.

Beautifully expounded, sir.

 

[AQPE]

OK I see DL, specifically DE, as a much more pressing concern than OL.

1. DE in BB's system requires certain uncommon measureables, making these players harder to obtain. The strength of this D must start with at least two monsters up front. Although OL have certain required measureables these aren't as rare as those for DE, making these players easier to obtain later in the draft.

2. It's possible that due to injury neither Warren nor Wright can return to their previous high levels of performance. There's no reason to think that anyone other than Kaczur and Mankins will have substantially decreased performance.

3. The second tier of DL (Brace, Prior, Deaderick, Richard, Weston) have failed to show anything other than flashes. Meanwhile Dante Academy has produced a series of plugin players.

4. The OL has produced consistently high results, at least during the regular season, for several years. Since the departure of Seymour the DL has not. DL failure was a huge reason for the often horrid performance of the D this past year. This unit needs more horses, or grizzlies if we must maintain the conceit.

Not saying we shouldn't go OL with one of our top four. I am saying that right now DL is a huge area of concern, and it will remain so at least until more is heard about the recoveries of Warren, Wright, and Brace, and the possible one-year signing of Warren. I thnk we need to draft a DE early if one of the 5-techs is available.

Agree "almost" completely.

I'll be the first to admit that my understanding of their defensive schemes, what they do, when they do it, and why, is terribly limited. Nevertheless, I see DE as by far the most pressing need for the entire team., especially given the uncertainty regarding Ty Warren. Even if he makes it all the way back to his performance level from circa 2006 - 2007, I see an upgrade at the other end position as crucial. I really believe that if they get someone at that spot who has the ability to disrupt that side of the offensive line, it will make the SOLB and SILB much more effective in flowing to the ball. It said a lot to me to have them switch out Wilfork to that end position the past two seasons since, well, you know ... (I know why they traded him, but I'm just sayin').

In fact, I don't see them going further towards a championship than they have the past two seasons without doing a better job at - in this order - (1) stopping the run and (2) rushing the passer. So, defense has to be their top priority, and I see it all starting up front at DE.

I'd be totally OK to see them take a DE with 2 of their first 3 picks, as long as the value makes sense (I'm grateful to the folks who post on this part of the board for helping me to understand whether there are any possibilities in this draft class with the appropriate value to merit spending a 1st or 2nd round pick).

With all that said, even if Mankins is retained, the interior OL must IMHO be upgraded and now is the time, I feel, to address it. To me their two biggest weakness on offense over the past 5 seasons have been (1) an inability to control the ball and close out games, and (2) interior pocket breakdowns. I don't see that being corrected as long as Koppen and Neal in particular are counted on as starters.

In stating this I fully recognize that in two of the past five seasons, the offense has performed at historically high levels, and in one of the other relied on their backup quarterback in 15.75 games. So, I'm not saying that I'm anywhere near as worried about their offense as I am about their defense, but rather that with the draft choices they have, the time is now to try to address those two issues by spending more valuable resources than they have since drafting Mankins. Since then, they've swung and missed a couple of times already on late rounders for those spots. The one OL they took in either of the first two rounds since spending a #1 on Mankins was Vollmer - I'm pretty happy with how that turned out.

 

[Off The Grid]

Agree "almost" completely.

I'll be the first to admit that my understanding of their defensive schemes, what they do, when they do it, and why, is terribly limited. Nevertheless, I see DE as by far the most pressing need for the entire team., especially given the uncertainty regarding Ty Warren. Even if he makes it all the way back to his performance level from circa 2006 - 2007, I see an upgrade at the other end position as crucial. I really believe that if they get someone at that spot who has the ability to disrupt that side of the offensive line, it will make the SOLB and SILB much more effective in flowing to the ball. It said a lot to me to have them switch out Wilfork to that end position the past two seasons since, well, you know ... (I know why they traded him, but I'm just sayin').

In fact, I don't see them going further towards a championship than they have the past two seasons without doing a better job at - in this order - (1) stopping the run and (2) rushing the passer. So, defense has to be their top priority, and I see it all starting up front at DE.

I'd be totally OK to see them take a DE with 2 of their first 3 picks, as long as the value makes sense (I'm grateful to the folks who post on this part of the board for helping me to understand whether there are any possibilities in this draft class with the appropriate value to merit spending a 1st or 2nd round pick).

With all that said, even if Mankins is retained, the interior OL must IMHO be upgraded and now is the time, I feel, to address it. To me their two biggest weakness on offense over the past 5 seasons have been (1) an inability to control the ball and close out games, and (2) interior pocket breakdowns. I don't see that being corrected as long as Koppen and Neal in particular are counted on as starters.

In stating this I fully recognize that in two of the past five seasons, the offense has performed at historically high levels, and in one of the other relied on their backup quarterback in 15.75 games. So, I'm not saying that I'm anywhere near as worried about their offense as I am about their defense, but rather that with the draft choices they have, the time is now to try to address those two issues by spending more valuable resources than they have since drafting Mankins. Since then, they've swung and missed a couple of times already on late rounders for those spots. The one OL they took in either of the first two rounds since spending a #1 on Mankins was Vollmer - I'm pretty happy with how that turned out.

Bravo.

I couldn't agree MORE...and on ALL points.

 

[Fencer]

A significant fraction of the drafted OL who ever started for BB's Pats started their first seasons, if not Opening Day.

From memory, I think that includes Light, Klemm, Kaczur, GRR, Jones, Vollmer at tackle; Mankins at guard; and Koppen at center.

I believe only Mankins and about half the tackles were Opening Day starters, while Koppen and the rest of the tackles weren't. Still, they were able to perform pretty quickly.

Of course, they all had an off-season in the Patriots' system under their belts ...