A WWII Vet Defends The Wall!

[AtomicDawg]

This guy deserves a Patriots Fan of the Year award or sonething. God Bless America.

 

[archstanton543]

You're considered innocent until proven guilty if you are charged with a crime.

Deflategate wasn't a crime (meaning, the police didn't come and arrest Tom Brady). It was a supposed rule violation that was handled internally by the NFL and Pats. Yes, employers and arbitrators should act in good faith (like not make up false charges) but according to the ruling of the Appellate Court, they can because of the extreme deference given to arbitrators (even if it's the same guy who levied the original punishment....because that's what the poorly written and bargained for CBA says).

 

[upstater1]

You're considered innocent until proven guilty if you are charged with a crime.

Deflategate wasn't a crime (meaning, the police didn't come and arrest Tom Brady). It was a supposed rule violation that was handled internally by the NFL and Pats. Yes, employers and arbitrators should act in good faith (like not make up false charges) but according to the ruling of the Appellate Court, they can because of the extreme deference given to arbitrators (even if it's the same guy who levied the original punishment....because that's what the poorly written and bargained for CBA says).

I think the veteran has it spot on. They should never have overruled Judge Berman who tried to put an end to this silliness. They absolutely made a bad decision, and Berman was even of the opinion that there was no proof at all the balls were deflated by humans at the AFCCG. We are kidding ourselves if we don't believe that this is why Berman ruled as he did. You can find any legal justification you like for a position that coalesces in the mind, and this is how Berman came to his conclusion that the arbitrator did not follow protocol.

It is also why the judges who imagined there was overwhelming evidence overturned Berman.

We cannot kid ourselves here that the judges are not taking into account the question of culpability and proof. They are.

 

[archstanton543]

I think the veteran has it spot on. They should never have overruled Judge Berman who tried to put an end to this silliness. They absolutely made a bad decision, and Berman was even of the opinion that there was no proof at all the balls were deflated by humans at the AFCCG. We are kidding ourselves if we don't believe that this is why Berman ruled as he did. You can find any legal justification you like for a position that coalesces in the mind, and this is how Berman came to his conclusion that the arbitrator did not follow protocol.

It is also why the judges who imagined there was overwhelming evidence overturned Berman.

We cannot kid ourselves here that the judges are not taking into account the question of culpability and proof. They are.

But, that's not what Berman ruled on. This whole court case is about process. Was Brady given notice about deflated balls and destruction of the phone penalties? Was Brady allowed to talk to everyone they wanted to in the appeal hearing? Procedural stuff. Deflated balls has nothing to do with the ruling.

Now, the Appellate Court ruled that none of the stuff Berman ruled on mattered because of the extreme deference the court give arbitrators. If you have a ****ty arbitrator that moves the goalposts (like Goody did with Brady's phone destruction), too bad because that's what both sides agreed to in the CBA. Again, this is about process not about deflated footballs.

If this does go before the Supreme Court, I think they will bring up deflated footballs because they're argument will be, "Can your employer make stuff up about you and then punish you?" and can an arbitrator move the goalposts like I've explained.

 

[RunAmok]

The Union does have an option no matter what any court rules. They can strike. If the Union feels that management has reneged on the agreement that they bargained for in good-faith they always have that course of action. It actually might the only option that will cost the owners enough money that they would dump Roger. That said, the players are far too short-sighted and greedy to take that step.

 

[fair catch fryar]

You're considered innocent until proven guilty if you are charged with a crime.

Deflategate wasn't a crime (meaning, the police didn't come and arrest Tom Brady). It was a supposed rule violation that was handled internally by the NFL and Pats. Yes, employers and arbitrators should act in good faith (like not make up false charges) but according to the ruling of the Appellate Court, they can because of the extreme deference given to arbitrators (even if it's the same guy who levied the original punishment....because that's what the poorly written and bargained for CBA says).

Don't forget about science. Science and the Ideal Gas Law pretty much blow up any accusation made or evidence fabricated by Goodell and his goons.

 

[Silver Blue&Red]

You're considered innocent until proven guilty if you are charged with a crime.

Deflategate wasn't a crime (meaning, the police didn't come and arrest Tom Brady). It was a supposed rule violation that was handled internally by the NFL and Pats. Yes, employers and arbitrators should act in good faith (like not make up false charges) but according to the ruling of the Appellate Court, they can because of the extreme deference given to arbitrators (even if it's the same guy who levied the original punishment....because that's what the poorly written and bargained for CBA says).

I agree. I think the NFLPA didn't expect the NFL to be complete lying Dbags

 

[varjao]

Bravo.

 

[Froob]

Don't forget about science. Science and the Ideal Gas Law pretty much blow up any accusation made or evidence fabricated by Goodell and his goons.

I wish Berman made Goodell say in plain English that he believes Brady deflated the balls by a third of a psi.

 

[upstater1]

But, that's not what Berman ruled on. This whole court case is about process. Was Brady given notice about deflated balls and destruction of the phone penalties? Was Brady allowed to talk to everyone they wanted to in the appeal hearing? Procedural stuff. Deflated balls has nothing to do with the ruling.

Now, the Appellate Court ruled that none of the stuff Berman ruled on mattered because of the extreme deference the court give arbitrators. If you have a ****ty arbitrator that moves the goalposts (like Goody did with Brady's phone destruction), too bad because that's what both sides agreed to in the CBA. Again, this is about process not about deflated footballs.

If this does go before the Supreme Court, I think they will bring up deflated footballs because they're argument will be, "Can your employer make stuff up about you and then punish you?" and can an arbitrator move the goalposts like I've explained.

I contend it did matter.

If you believe there is little to no evidence, you say Goodell doesn't follow process.

If you believe the evidence is overwhelming, you say Berman should have deferred to the arbitrator.

The judges made their feelings known in both cases as to the amount of evidence.

 

[PatsFans.com Article]

WWII Veteran Defends Tom Brady, Rips Second Circuit Judges

Robert Alvarez

WWII Veteran mails letter to court judges defending Tom Brady.

Continue reading...

 

[DarrylS]

I am a senior citizen, and live in a 55+ community, when I first came her 15 years ago there quite a few WWII vets, who I got to know and would listen to, when they felt like talking about their time in the military.. amazing stories.

Heard yesterday the last one, Earl, now 98 has been moved to a nursing home.. we are losing these men and if you have time visit one and if they feel like talking listen to their stories..

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

You're considered innocent until proven guilty if you are charged with a crime.

Deflategate wasn't a crime (meaning, the police didn't come and arrest Tom Brady). It was a supposed rule violation that was handled internally by the NFL and Pats. Yes, employers and arbitrators should act in good faith (like not make up false charges) but according to the ruling of the Appellate Court, they can because of the extreme deference given to arbitrators (even if it's the same guy who levied the original punishment....because that's what the poorly written and bargained for CBA says).

Even in an arbitration proceeding, you're entitled to something vaguely resembling due process (at least that was my understanding until the CA2 decision ). The problem is we have c*cked up SC precedent in MLB v. Garvey that is muddles the issue. Apparently, Chin and Parker felt that based on this case "anything goes" when it comes to arbitration.

 

[JoeSixPat]

But, that's not what Berman ruled on. This whole court case is about process. Was Brady given notice about deflated balls and destruction of the phone penalties? Was Brady allowed to talk to everyone they wanted to in the appeal hearing? Procedural stuff. Deflated balls has nothing to do with the ruling.

Now, the Appellate Court ruled that none of the stuff Berman ruled on mattered because of the extreme deference the court give arbitrators. If you have a ****ty arbitrator that moves the goalposts (like Goody did with Brady's phone destruction), too bad because that's what both sides agreed to in the CBA. Again, this is about process not about deflated footballs.

If this does go before the Supreme Court, I think they will bring up deflated footballs because they're argument will be, "Can your employer make stuff up about you and then punish you?" and can an arbitrator move the goalposts like I've explained.

While Berman did rule based on process - among other things, that it was unfair and that the NFL didn't even have any hard evidence that anything happened - along the way he was very clear in his belief that based on the findings presented by the NFL, that nothing happened

This took the NFL by surprise at least in a legal sense

The 2nd Circuit meanwhile ALSO had two judges who issued a decision that was, on the surface based on the process - but in the 2 judge's mind that process need not be fair - it need only be the "process" by which the Arbitrator can issue whatever decision he wants, with or without evidence or reasonable justification

In effect they went out of their way to say that they took Goodell at his word that Brady is guilty - because that's the arbitration process agreed to by the CBA - that Goodell need not be fair and his ruling supercedes even the judiciary

The chief judge disagreed, meaning 2 of the 4 judges that have thus far heard the case disagree

One of many reasons why I hope the new en banc hearing is granted. If there's one thing the courts are supposed to do, it's make sure that everyone is treated fairly.

That's a principle that rises well above the NFL/NFLPA CBA - it's in the Constitution

 

[JoeSixPat]

I am a senior citizen, and live in a 55+ community, when I first came her 15 years ago there quite a few WWII vets, who I got to know and would listen to, when they felt like talking about their time in the military.. amazing stories.

Heard yesterday the last one, Earl, now 98 has been moved to a nursing home.. we are losing these men and if you have time visit one and if they feel like talking listen to their stories..

I was fortunate enough to hear the stories of a WWI veteran - my grandfather who lived into his 90s - and of course he grew up hearing first hand stories of the Civil War - which of course was just one generation removed from the Revolutionary War

We're not as far removed from history as we think - and in fact there's still more than a few issues of justice and fairness that the Founding Fathers have left for us to work on as well - though we really need to get our priorities straight in actually fixing issues, rather than just allowing political discourse to turn into just another "sport" with the goal being winning elections rather than working together to empower all of us to collaboratively address our own challenges

But when a guy like this knows injustice has occurred and knows that remaining silent is an insult to all who died for justice, at the very least he deserves a written response from Goodell

 

[fair catch fryar]

You're considered innocent until proven guilty if you are charged with a crime.

Deflategate wasn't a crime (meaning, the police didn't come and arrest Tom Brady). It was a supposed rule violation that was handled internally by the NFL and Pats. Yes, employers and arbitrators should act in good faith (like not make up false charges) but according to the ruling of the Appellate Court, they can because of the extreme deference given to arbitrators (even if it's the same guy who levied the original punishment....because that's what the poorly written and bargained for CBA says).

That's what makes this whole debacle so infuriating. He may not have been charged with an actual crime even though they treat it as such, but the whole premise is that they never had any actual proof, no proverbial smoking gun. T Brady was given false assurances by Ted Wells and they tried to crucify him over destroying his phone, which they never had any actual right to in the first place and then Goodell's whole charge is blown up by actual science and science experts in accordance to the Ideal Gas Law. It's like these guy's suspended the Law of Physics or the Law of Water is Wet so they could be right. Brady didn't do anything wrong.......ugh. Sorry, I know you know all of this and I need to step away from the ledge now. Kudos to this WW2 vet.

 

[mosey threetupu]

I am a senior citizen, and live in a 55+ community, when I first came her 15 years ago there quite a few WWII vets, who I got to know and would listen to, when they felt like talking about their time in the military.. amazing stories.

Heard yesterday the last one, Earl, now 98 has been moved to a nursing home.. we are losing these men and if you have time visit one and if they feel like talking listen to their stories..

I lived with one for years. We used to roll our eyes when we'd hear the same stories again and again over the years. I'd give just about anything to hear any one of those stories told again by that man.

 

[DarrylS]

I lived with one for years. We used to roll our eyes when we'd hear the same stories again and again over the years. I'd give just about anything to hear any one of those stories told again by that man.

My father was one also, and never understood what he was talking about until years later.. he died young.

He was an engineer on a boat that towed mulberry harbors into Arromarches or Utah Beach, but never could understand what he meant by concrete caissons.. he became a brilliant weapons engineer, but a lousy teacher.

 

[Gwedd]

I am a senior citizen, and live in a 55+ community, when I first came her 15 years ago there quite a few WWII vets, who I got to know and would listen to, when they felt like talking about their time in the military.. amazing stories.

Heard yesterday the last one, Earl, now 98 has been moved to a nursing home.. we are losing these men and if you have time visit one and if they feel like talking listen to their stories..

My father was a Hospital Corpsman and served alongside Marines in the Pacific during WWII. Met the woman who would become my mother in Australia. He talked about some of what he experienced. He's still around at 97 years young. We are fast approaching the end of an era.

 

[archstanton543]

"If you believe the evidence is overwhelming, you say Berman should have deferred to the arbitrator."

No you don't. There's already legal precedent that says that even if the arbitrator is a complete moron the courts defer his his decision because it's what both parties agreed to in the CBA.