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A trade that absolutely needs to happen next season

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Prufrock, Dec 3, 2006.

  1. Prufrock

    Prufrock Practice Squad Player

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    It is time for Matt Cassell to go.

    Tom Brady is 30 years old next year. He probably has about 5-6 years minimum left in his tank before he starts to seriously decline. Matt Cassel is around 24-25. This means that once Brady is hitting that age wall in the NFL (he could be Warren Moon, but I'm talking about the most likely scenario), Cassell himself would be 30ish. Not the time you wan't to showcase your quarterback of the future. This is also assuming that Cassell would be personally fine with not taking the helm until he is 30. So this leads us to the conclusion that Cassell needs to go, for something decent of course.

    What the Patriots need right now is an impact type defensive player. They need a Ray Lewis, Troy Polamalu, Rodney Harrison, or Brian Urlacher type player. The type of player that just seems to be everywhere, and seems to have that uncanny knack for making those plays or hits that cause a monumental shift in the momentum of the game. Rodney filled this role on the Patriots for many years, but he honestly doesn't have many more years left. We all know how the Patriots are without Rodney, good, but not great. They need to fix this hole ASAP. I don't realistically see anyone coming up through the ranks that could step into Rodney's shoes in the next few years (I love Banta-Cain to death, but he is going to probably become Teddy, not Rodney). So the only realistic way to address this hole, is through the draft or a trade.

    I expect the Patriots to get a poor seed in the draft this year, so I really don't see them getting this type of player, unless they get lucky. So the only real way that they are going to get the next Ray Lewis, is by getting a top 5 draft pick and spending it on a kid that they are almost absolutely sure on. This is where Matt Cassell comes in.

    I don't think that the Patriots would find any suitor for a straight-up Cassell for a #1-5 pick, so they would have to maybe bundle in a 1st, or 2nd and a 4th, or something similar. So make that bundle, and trade it to a team that needs a starting QB.

    The lure of Cassell becomes that he is obviously a lot more NFL ready than some 22 year old kid you are going to draft out of USC or wherever, and has been under the tutelage of one of the greatest QBs in history. In addition, if the Patriots can show that he capable of handling the flow of an NFL game, he becomes infinitely more attractive. Tell me this; Would a team rather have some baby-faced kid that they have to show the ropes of the NFL, or a 26 year old man entering his prime, who has shown that he knows how to handle the stress of playing professional football? The choice is obvious. He very well may be the next Steve Young, the only problem is that the Patriots have Joe Montana at the helm.

    Trading Cassell also gives the Patriots a chance to get another young QB, and groom him until he is ready to take over for Brady. It doesn't have to be anyone special, just someone that they see a lot of potential in, and has the ability to learn. Think about it, if they use a 4th round or lower pick on some kid in the draft after this one, it lines up perfectly with the time Brady is starting to decline. This kid will be 26-28, and ready to enter the NFL… and guess what, the cycle starts all over again.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2006
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I expect we'll get something like a 3rd round pick for Cassel. Certainly nothing that we can use with other picks for a top five pick. But either this offseason or next I expect we'll trade him and, unlike Davey, I think we'll actually get a (late) Day One pick for him.
     
  3. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    teams werent even offering a #1 for Schaub..the best was a #2 and he actually has been proven in game a lot compared to Cassell..sorry to tell you but doing good in preseason doesnt make u a great player. Cassell wont even get a 3rd or 4th imo..only way he can get up there is if god forbid Brady gets hurt and he takes over for half season or more and does great
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2006
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I don't know what was offered for Schaub, but if teams see a QB they like they'll make an offer. A #3 if nothing if a team thinks it's getting a good, young QB and Cassel has looked like that in the preseason and in his start against Miami last year.
     
  5. Prufrock

    Prufrock Practice Squad Player

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    That's why you package in other picks with Cassell. I wasn't suggesting that anyone would trade for Cassell straight-up. I think it's very realistic the Patriots could package Cassell and a 1st, and move up 15 or more spots in the first round.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2006
  6. spacecrime

    spacecrime Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    No, that is the maximum, the best case scenario.

    The minimum he has left is one snap this afternoon. That is all it takes for a career ending injury.

    That is why you need two good RBs and two good QBs. To get rid of Cassell is to lose our insurance.

    I am the original Cassell lover, from his first pass in his first mini-camp. It was for me that AJ coined the term Cassell-ite. But there is no way you can get a high draft pick for him. The only way you could do better than a fourth rounder would be for him to play in some games and prove what he has. If you have been a fan long enough to remember Rohan Davey's NFLE MVP season, and what that got him in the NFL, you understand that Cassell has to show it in the regular season. And teh only way for that to happen is for Brady to be hurt, in which case we won't want to trade him.

    Sorry, no one thinks more highly of Cassell than I do, but getting a first day pick for him is not going to happen.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2006
  7. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I have no idea how you can say that. I'm not some nutty "we're going to get a #1 pick for him" guy but there are lots of lousy QB out there. If he continues to look good in his chances I think a team would strongly consider a #3 - especially if it's delayed a year. Before the 2007 draft, draft him for a 2008 #3 (or both a year later). That's not a huge price to pay for a potential answer at QB for a team.
     
  8. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    but what if Brady gets hurt? then whos a QB..hes a good backup for us.

    if we wanna move into top 15..we can do it other ways
     
  9. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Cassel was signed to a 4 year deal for a reason. He isn't going anywhere this offseason unless someone literally blows BB's doors off. He's too valuable because of his familiarity with the system. And he hasn't been showcased sufficiently yet to garner that blow your doors off deal. He likely will be in Chinabowl and with an extra pre season game in 2007. And there is no one in the pipeline to replace him since both of the QB's in TC this year bombed out. Which means one or more of the many draft picks we have for 2007 will be used on another potential developmental QB.

    BB would love to flip a backup QB for value. But he will not flip one while he represents better value on the roster than in draft/player compensation. Until we get another promising youngster in the mix, Matt represents the best insurance we've had at that position since...Brady.
     
  10. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I disagree with that. Davey never looked that good in preseason. NFLE or not, against NFL players Cassel simply looks better.
     
  11. Prufrock

    Prufrock Practice Squad Player

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    You sign a veteran to play band-aid for a few years (backup quarterbacks always seem to be floating around), then draft someone young the Patriots can groom.


    Yeah, I never once suggested that anyone would trade a pick for him straight up. I suggested packaging other picks with him. Do you think that no one would take a chance with Cassell, when all they would risk is moving down in the first round? Think about how many QB busts their have been. I think there is a much smaller risk with Cassell then there is with some unproven rookie.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2006
  12. BelichickFan

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    Which is why I expect a QB to be drafted on the second day this year to have a year behind Cassel who we can still trade before the 2008 draft.

    The next young QB is actually interesting because he could be the long term replacement if he's good. Brady is 30, if we sign a guy this year or next to a 4 year deal, Brady would be around 35 at the end of the new guy's first contract. At that point it would be possible that we move on with that guy if he's looking good and if Brady is ready to move on (with 3 SB already, he may not play beyond 35).
     
  13. Mainefan

    Mainefan Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Sorry, Prufrock, we need to KEEP Cassell. We need to keep him for exactly the same reason we kept Brady when we had Bledsoe. It is just too easy to imagine a moment when Cassell could salvage a season.

    What we don't want is a mediocre backup who, if Brady gets injured, can make sure we don't forfeit a game, but nothing more. Cassell, I think, gives us a chance of winning--even if Brady goes down. This makes him an enormous asset.
     
  14. Prufrock

    Prufrock Practice Squad Player

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    The Patriots also need an impact defensive player, and I don't really see any alternative. I think the risk of having a journeyman QB behind Brady for a few years is a much smaller risk than trying to get by without a Rodney Harrison in the lineup.
     
  15. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Not a single person has suggested a #1 or #2.

    How many fingers do you have ? And do you remember Week 17 last year ?
     
  16. jeffd

    jeffd On the Game Day Roster

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    Cassel is worth more to the Pats than any compensation you could reasonably expect. If you can get a day one pick for him straight up, he's not worth much packaged either.
    As far as not having an alternative... Wilfork and Warren are both late 1st picks, Samuel is a 4th, Hobbs I forget put no better than 3rd.
    Maroney, Graham, Watson and Mankins are also late 1st picks. I confident in what our FO can do with the picks they have.
     
  17. Prufrock

    Prufrock Practice Squad Player

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    I am suggesting that they do something like this:

    Cassell
    1st round (probably around 20ish)
    or
    Cassell
    2nd round
    3rd round

    for

    1st round (probably top 5)


    They are all great players, but I'm talking about getting a high impact type player here.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2006
  18. mcbee

    mcbee Banned

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    I don't think he's looked that good. He's thrown some short passes, scrambled a bit.

    Has he thrown a good deep ball? Rifled it between defenders? Dodged sacks with poise and calm? Hit a receiver coming back to him when the play has broken down?

    What exactly has he done? Sorry but this is a homer post extraordinaire.
     
  19. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Unfortunately you're way off.

    If Cassel is worth a low 3 or high 4, he wouldn't move us up far. If our #1 were, say, #26, that value of Cassel would get us to arund #21 or so.
     
  20. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think he showed a lot more than you think in the Miami game last year, against first stringers on a very good defense.

    BB has a two track mentality when it comes to backup QB's. First and foremost they represent tremendous value on the roster if they can actually run this offense (which Davey couldn't do even in pre season). Matt has obviously proven to BB that he can, which is why we went without a legitimate #3 for half a season (and still really are minus that...). But he also envisions doing what was done with Young and Favre and Hasselbeck - developing a player other franchises would love to have a chance to draft again. I think Cassel is already worth a late day 1 pick to almost any team with a struggling QB. What it would take for BB to part with him this early is a package of picks or a pick and a player he covets. And as long as Matt continues to develop that price will only go up, whether someone else decides to pay it or not. If not, he still represents tremendous value here and BB will balance that against whatever his market value as a trading chip shakes out to be.

    The Schaub situation will be very interesting to watch this season as many teams have tried to pry him away from Atlanta and he is a RFA this season. BB insured that Matt would never be a RFA. Atlanta will have to tender him the top tier ($2M+) and hope somebody who has already coveted him say fine, we'll give him a long term deal you cannot afford to match without cutting bait on the athlete and a 1st and 3rd because we couldn't move up to get say Quinn.
     

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