A trade for Donnie Edwards would go a long way towards helping LB depth chart...

[TNPatsFan]

I've never put much weight on Joyner's stats. They're interesting, but I don't really see how they tell anything about who is a better player. Somebody has better numbers in some oddball statistic so he's a better player. I'm not even sure how he arrives at some of the numbers. "Yards given up per tackle" seems like a good example. How do you calculate that? What if a guy chases a play down on the other side of the field on a play that was run away from him? Can you really say he "gave up" those yards?

Anyway, I'm kind of in the middle on Edwards. I think he's a very good player, much better than Beisel, and he makes lots of tackles, but I'm not convinced he's one of the top LB's in the league.

 

[NE39]

Tackles are tackles. If he makes them after 4 yards, he is preventing the big play. I'll take a tackle after 4 yards over a tackle not made. BTW, his "tackles over 4 yards" stats are skewed because he plays a lot on passing downs. Any coverage LB is going to make a lot of tackles downfield.

Edwards is a playmaker, IMO. He is a good tackler, very good in coverage and plays smart. He anticipates plays well and gets to the ball. He has above average speed an anticipation for a LB. He played hurt all last year, which shows his toughness. He has been durable during his career.

He isn't a pass rusher (isn't called upon to do it a lot), but would be a great fit for the Pats just on passing downs alone. The guy has 14 Ints in his last 4 years in SD alone. How many DBs have that many picks in the same stretch? Add in the 6 fumbles he has forced in that same stretch, and that is 20 times in 4 years the guy has taken the ball away for his team. Those are big plays, the kind that win games.

 

[JackBauer]

Again, I'm not saying he's a bad player. Just that he's overrated because he's a chase-and-tackle kinda guy.

His age scares me a bit, but if Beisel doesn't look like he's going to pan out, I suppose I'd give him a shot.

 

[shmessy]

Are we agreed that we can put this "Average Yards per Tackle" stat where it belongs?

 

[dryheat44]

I'm not familiar with Joyner's methods. But Football Outsiders stats (Not saying they're better, just that I know how to use them) San Diego was one of the very best teams in the league at stuffing runs between the tackles. They gave up a large percentage of their total yardage surrendered around the right side. That would be Merriman's responsibility. Perhaps Edwards made a lot of tackles that Merriman missed due to his lack of discipline in getting to the quarterback?

Anyway, I think we're getting sidetracked.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I'm ROTFLMAO because the same people who won't give the young Beisel a chance will be complaining that BB didn't get young enough at LB 3 or so years from now when Bruschi and Vrabel will be in their mid-thirties and retiring. Getting rid of a young player for a undersized 33 year old LB in a trade (for a young draft pick) is ludicrous. Typical know-it-alls only looking at past results without looking toward the future. I have no problem with signing him if he gets cut, but he will be without training camp and he will need to learn the system. These are things not to be discounted.

It seems quite obvious that BB wants Beisel to turn out, so that in 3 years, Colvin and Beisel will be OLD vets that keep continuity as get replace the LB corp. As far as BB's plan turning out, it remains to be seen.

BOTTOMLINE: GETTING YOUNG AT LB MEANS GROWING PAINS!!!!!!!!!! They won't learn if they don't play.

 

[dryheat44]

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Typical know-it-alls only looking at past results without looking toward the future. I have no problem with signing him if he gets cut, but he will be without training camp and he will need to learn the system. These are things not to be discounted.

It seems quite obvious that BB wants Beisel to turn out, so that in 3 years, Colvin and Beisel will be OLD vets that keep continuity as get replace the LB corp. As far as BB's plan turning out, it remains to be seen.

BOTTOMLINE: GETTING YOUNG AT LB MEANS GROWING PAINS!!!!!!!!!! They won't learn if they don't play.

There's a such thing as this year. Last year we had a problem with WR depth and we traded a fifth for Andre Davis...to be here for one year. We did the same thing a year or two before, although I can't put my finger on who right now.

I don't think anybody's saying that Edwards is the long-term solution to our inside linebacking position. However, are we going to neglect the present to worry about the future? Edwards can help us NOW, and possibly next year. It's not an either-or solution. Even though I think Beisel sucks donkey nuts in the Patriots' scheme, there's no reason why he and Edwards can't both make the roster.

BOTTOMLINE: EDWARDS ISN'T THE FUTURE. BUT NEITHER IS BEISEL. AND AT LEAST ONE OF THEM CAN HELP IN THE PRESENT.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

Even though I think Beisel ..........
BOTTOMLINE: BUT NEITHER IS BEISEL.

Well, that's your assumption. No patience for a young developing LB. We are too old at LB, and BB is looking at Beisel for a 2 year period. If Beisel does good this year, he is going to be re-signed to a contract. If not, BB will get another young ILB. It's not like BB broke the bank to get him. But if you don't play the young players, you will never develop any.

BOTTOMLINE: THE LB CORP IS TOO OLD. WE NEED TO DEVELOP OUR LB WITH PLAYING TIME. THEY WON'T LEARN IF THEY DON'T PLAY. Sometimes, that means growing pains. BB seems willing to endure that for the future.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=38771

I agree with BB.

My favorite line is:

"What difference does it make? What is paper? You're going to put my
paper out there against Buffalo's paper? It doesn't mean anything. Depth
is what you have in October, November and December. That is what depth
is. Depth in May, depth in July, what difference does it make? The guys
we have, we're trying to get better. We have a lot of people we're
trying to evaluate."

 

[dryheat44]

Well, that's your assumption. No patience for a young developing LB. We are too old at LB, and BB is looking at Beisel for a 2 year period. If Beisel does good this year, he is going to be re-signed to a contract. If not, BB will get another young ILB. It's not like BB broke the bank to get him. But if you don't play the young players, you will never develop any.

BOTTOMLINE: THE LB CORP IS TOO OLD. WE NEED TO DEVELOP OUR LB WITH PLAYING TIME. THEY WON'T LEARN IF THEY DON'T PLAY. Sometimes, that means growing pains. BB seems willing to endure that for the future.

You develop young players in practice and in blowouts. If you have a Super Bowl-calibre team, you don't go with a "young" player who can't get the job done in the name of his development.

I know some will disagree with me, for good reason, but to me Monty proved beyond a shadow of a doubt last year that he cannot function as an every down player in our defense. And the proof was on the field, on Sundays. I don't see why we would hurt our team in the here and now just to get him more reps.

We have young ILB candidates on this team. Alexander. Roach. We'll probably draft one next year. I don't think signing a vet like Edwards hurts the team. I just don't see it. If we were the 49ers, yeah, it's worth sticking with youth through hell or high water. Fortunately, we're not them.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

You develop young players in practice and in blowouts. If you have a Super Bowl-calibre team, you don't go with a "young" player who can't get the job done in the name of his development.

If BB cans Milloy over money and gives the job to some rookie CB named Wilson, he will do anything. Same with T. Buckley versus some UDFA named R. Gay. Same with Bledsoe versus Brady. BB does do it.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

I don't think signing a vet like Edwards hurts the team.

I would agree. I got no problem with signing him or any other LB, but trading a draft pick for a 33 year old player is ludicrous IMHO, especially considering that he won't be on the Chargers 53 this year.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Wow. Completely and utterly ridiculous.

No, that comment isn't completely and utterly ridiculous. How else did 215-220# Cato June end up as All Star LB? Its certainly not on his play or the play of the Clot's Defense.

My concern is not that he would cost a fifth rounder or so, its that he has a contract of $4 million a year. I'd prefer he be released so he can sign a new contract at more reasonable dollars.

IMHO, that is what the Patriot Brass is waiting to happen...

 

[SoonerPatriot]

This has been about the 4th or 5th thread on this subject.

Fourth or fifth? I thought we were into the "dozens" of threads about a trade that's never going to happen. I'm satisfied with our LBs anyway. How can Beisel not get better with a year in the system? Put Chad Brown in the right role and he can be productive. Edwards would be nice, but not a must have.

 

[tkayo]

Edwards is too small for the 3-4, so Phillips wants to move him. No doubt BB will find a good use for him and he would be on the field a lot. So, here's why AJ won't want to trade Edwards to the Patriots: He doesn't want to look stupid X 3 (Harrison, Caldwell, Edwards). Another reason is, why would you trade your top tackler, regardless of scheme, when your job is on the line?

Edwards is a fan favorite and a native San Diegan. No doubt AJ's asking price is high, or he would be playing for some 4-3 team right now.

 

[Clonamery]

Edwards is too small for the 3-4, so Phillips wants to move him. No doubt BB will find a good use for him and he would be on the field a lot. So, here's why AJ won't want to trade Edwards to the Patriots: He doesn't want to look stupid X 3 (Harrison, Caldwell, Edwards). Another reason is, why would you trade your top tackler, regardless of scheme, when your job is on the line?

Edwards is a fan favorite and a native San Diegan. No doubt AJ's asking price is high, or he would be playing for some 4-3 team right now.

Smith has torched Edwards in the papers and called him out in front of the team. There is no staying for Edwards as a player...if they don't release him he will be inactive....$4mm is the reason, too small for the 3-4, etc., etc., etc. I think he was all those things last year too. But every year is a different year in the NFL (what have you done for me lately?)

No, most likely Edwards will be released but whether we have a place for him a la Don Davis, I don't know.