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A trade for Donnie Edwards would go a long way towards helping LB depth chart...

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by NE39, Aug 7, 2006.

  1. NE39

    NE39 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    This is a good article on Edwards in the North County Times, which makes it sound like he still could be traded. He seems like a natural guy for the Patriots to pick up, and would go a long way to helping some of the questions at LB. He isn't real big, but has proven he can play 3-4 ILB in San Diego and would probably become the Pats best LB in pass coverage.
     
  2. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    Preaching to the choir. I actually thought this trade would be made months ago. The guy is a tackling machine, and a leader.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 10, 2005
  3. DarrylS

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    He would be a welcome addition to our LB corps.
     
  4. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    This has been about the 4th or 5th thread on this subject.
     
  5. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Unless he'd subplant Beisel (who has been in the system for over a year now), most of his time would been seen on special teams since Brown/TBC would have pass rush duties. In that case, I'd almost rather have Izzo or Davis.

    His leadership would be welcome, but he'd be caught between being a starter and a special teams ace.
     
  6. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    He could put a blindfold on and hop around on one leg and be better than Beisel. The only justification to keep Monte would be for his youth.
     
  7. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Amen, Dry Heat. Edwards is a proven top-tier linebacker and as you say, a tackling machine. If you watch him, he means business when he's in on a play, and he's one of those guys who's always in on a play. You can weight 290 and run a 4.5 or something, but if you try to tackle a guy high on every play or try to tackle with your arms only, you end up being a second or third tier guy anyway, because your man gets away. Edwards wraps up, hits a guy low whenever possible, even sometimes gets to the football too. Productivity on a stick.

    But bear in mind Beisel has a hot wife too.

    PFnV
     
  8. PlattsFan

    PlattsFan On the Game Day Roster

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    Problem with trade speculation is that you really have no idea what it would cost. Would Donnie Edwards be a welcome addition? Sure. So would a lot of guys in the NFL. Edwards is a little different because it's actually rumored he might be dealt, but, still, everything is cost/benefit.

    Is he worth a second-round pick? A third? A decent young player? Who knows what they are asking for? I'd tend to doubt that he'd be had for cheaply enough to make it work; he is a little small for the NE system of taking on guards, it seems. But ... who knows?
     
  9. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Good points. Rumor around draft time was a third or fourth round pick, which I'd part with.

    I think what would happen is that Bruschi would play Johnson's old role, and Edwards would play Bruschi's. It's the same thing if Bruschi and Beisel share the middle, so nothing's changed there.
     
  10. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Well, given what's been mentioned in this thread already, how about Beisel himself as the trade bait? Monty's bigger and Smith evidently wants more POWW! at that position in SD.

    Donnie Edwards is DEFINITELY a Patriot type. And, being so cerebral, would pick up the complex system faster than 99% of other players.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2006
  11. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    why are a lot of Charger fans open to releasing Donnie? Because a lot of his tackles are already 4 yards down field.. i once wanted him too but then i talked to some and they said..hes a tackling machine..he gets a lot of tackles but most are already 3-5 yards downfield. they did praise him for coverage but against run..his size says hes small and while stats are racked up..it seems like the size effects him
     
  12. PatsFanInVa

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    THAT'S why the Pats wanted Sullivan... it all makes sense now...
     
  13. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    um...well if you still want a guy that will get plowed like Beisel did last year and are willing to give up a 3rd probably for a guy his age when he'll get plowed over a lot of times and dragged downfield a little take him. only update over Beisel with Edwards would be experience in 3-4, NFL experience in general, leadership and pass coverage thats a lot better than Beisel. not worth a 3rd or even a 4th for a guy who will play 1-2 years and is a high risk
     
  14. PatsFanInVa

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    On age/risk, I definitely agree. Can't play both sides of that one. Depends what you give up. A 3 or a 4? I would do it. Beisel? Depends what the staff thinks about him.

    On "dragged 3 or 4 yards" I need to check out something other than second hand charger-fans reports. YouTube here I come.

    PFnV
     
  15. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    dont use youtube..its highlights :\

    dont people have the stats from some website? Where most tackles game from..pressures..allowed TDs by a player etc? Try to check that out
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 10, 2005
  16. PatsFanInVa

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    Here's a start. By the way, 2005 was considered a down year for this guy.

    I'll try to find stats on Tackles for Loss, or yards per tackle. But let's go from first principles:

    - SD is extremely stout against the run (about 78 yards per game).
    - Donnie Edwards is consistently the team leader in tackles, both solo and in assists.
    - Every play ends in either a tackle, a touchdown, or a force-out (usually recorded as a tackle.)
    - Since SD is stout against the run, and since Edwards is the team leader in tackles, either:

    - Edwards does not in fact give up four or five yards per play, or
    - Edwards is the "weak link" in the Chargers' defense, with Randall Godfrey I guess making all the stops for losses and short gains.

    While I could buy the latter explanation (pending stats,) it seems much more likely that what you have here is a perennial pro bowl linebacker, being dissed by fans for his size, and probably a few over-represented plays.

    Here's 2005's breakdown for Edwards. I've bolded some "highlights" that might be construed as not pass-defense related (TFL, sacks, 3-and-1 stops, etc.) He's definitely a monster pass-defense LB... but I just don't see the guy being pushed around as we are saying here.

    2005: Led team and ranked fourth in NFL with 154 tackles…selected to USA Today’s All-Joe Team and NFL.com’s All-Interview Team…led team with 11 tackles in season opener against Dallas…led team with eight stops at Denver Sept. 18…outstanding all-around effort to pace defense in ESPN Sunday Night Football win over New York Giants Sept. 25…led team with 13 tackles, including one for loss…ended second quarter three-and-out series with five-yard sack on third-down-and-10 play…Chargers scored touchdown on ensuing possession for 21-3 lead…later helped set up final points of game in 45-23 win over Giants by forcing fumble in fourth quarter on third-and-one play against New York’s David Tyree at San Diego’s 10-yard line… five plays later, Nate Kaeding kicked 44-yard field goal…teamed with Stephen Cooper for big third-and-one stop at five-yard line on opening series of game to hold Giants to field goal… paced Chargers defense with 11 tackles, including one for loss, and interception in Chargers 41-17 win over New England Oct. 2 that ended Patriots’ NFL-record 21-game home winning streak…interception took place with 46 seconds left in game, and after making pick, he pitched ball to safety Clinton Hart who took it 40 yards for touchdown and final points of game…tackle for loss came at pivotal time of the game…with San Diego up 24-17 in third quarter, tackled fullback Patrick Pass for four-yard loss on second-and-10 play that forced punt one play later… on ensuing drive, San Diego went 75 yards in eight plays and took 31-17 lead when Drew Brees connected with Reche Caldwell for a 28-yard touchdown pass…Chargers Alumni Player of Week after leading squad with season-high 15 stops against Pittsburgh in Monday Night Football game Oct. 10… led team with eight tackles and tied for team lead with two passes defensed in 27-14 win at Oakland Oct. 16…helped Bolts hold Raiders to 39 yards rushing… interception after crushing hit by Bhawoh Jue broke up pass intended for Greg Lewis Oct. 23 at Philadelphia…interception took place in second quarter at Chargers’ 15-yard line preventing potential Eagles score…led team with four passes defensed against Eagles…helped limit Eagles to 24 total yards rushing... played in 150th career game and matched Sammy Davis with team-high 11 tackles against Kansas City Oct. 30…registered sack among team-leading six tackles against Buffalo Nov. 20…sacked Bills quarterback J.P. Losman for 10-yard loss on second-and-10 play in fourth quarter…two plays later, Bills turned ball over on downs and Bolts scored touchdown on next possession for final points in 48-10 victory…forced fumble against Santana Moss and tied for team high with eight stops at Washington Nov. 27…team leader with eight tackles against Oakland Dec. 4…paced team with nine tackles in 26-17 win at Indianapolis Dec. 18…led team with season-high 18 stops, including 17 solo tackles, at Kansas City Dec. 24…forced Kansas City punt with third-down sack in fourth quarter… led team with nine tackles and two passes defensed in Dec. 31 season finale versus Denver.
     
  17. PatsFanInVa

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    I'm striking out on TFL and yards per tackle ... hopefully others have more luck. I also noticed on an occasion or two above I noted pass plays, mea culpa.

    I just don't see a team allowing 78 yards per run, with a guy averaging 10 tackles per game being the "weak link." Even assuming Edwards had only 1/2 of his stops on run plays, 5 yards per run ends up being 25 out of 78 yards... about 1/3 of all opponent yardage... on those five plays Edwards makes the stops on. If you call the average 3.9 yards (the NFL average run play,) setting the bar at 4 yards makes little sense, since that doesn't qualify as a poor performance against the run. But even so, that would mean Edwards accounts for 20 of 78 yards, on his five rush tackles.

    So on the other 25 or so running plays, the other team gets 58 yards... that would mean everybody else on SD who records a tackle is doing it two yards and a half yards past the line of scrimmage. And that is assuming Edwards plays middling run defense (league average 3.9 yards per stop,) not that Edwards is bad at run defense. If Edwards is truly bad against the run, the average non-Edwards tackle is a 2-yard stop.

    I could easily see this as a situation where Edwards gets to plays he has no business getting to (with 17-tackle games, you have to figure that happens on occasion,) and instead of quitting or not getting there, gets a grab on a guy other linebackers wouldn't have gotten to at all. Of course the physics of launching a smaller body rather than a larger one comes into play too, and your guy can get "dragged", especially when he's making a stop of a big back with a full head of steam.

    If that's the tradeoff though, I personally think I'll take it, unless as outlined above everyone else in San Diego is really tackling guys for an average gain of 2 yards per carry. In which case I find the guy that's really responsible -- let's say the one with the second most stops on the SD defense -- and pay the big bucks for him. I mean a guy that can take up Donnie Edwards' slack??? We GOTTA get that guy!

    PFnV

    Edited to say:

    And goddammit the guy plays Larry Johnson twice a year and Denver's back-du-jour twice a year!
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2006
  18. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Great analysis PFnV. Add to that, the article stated that Edwards played 10 games last year with torn knee cartiledge????? Beisel for Edwards......NOW!!!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2006
  19. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    I don't really want Edwards. Overrated.
     
  20. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Wow. I think he's one of the most underrated LBs in the league.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2006

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