A thought on the Patriots' QB "plans"

[AzPatsFan]

Of all the positions on a football team, QB is by far the most important. For that position, you want depth more than anywhere else. Period.

Thanks to BB's perspicacity, he has three. The unexpected 6th round GOAT, and two developing high round picks, both of which had a few draft scouts touting as potential First Rounders. Plus he has procured them for very reasonable CAP prices.

Many here put Ryan Mallett in the same category as the Matt Cassell of the 2008 Training Camp. The guy who they wanted cut immediately, if not yesterday, in favor of some guy named Gutierez, or some other scrub.

We didn't need him since Brady always played, and never got hurt; and of course, never would. Until he did.

Cassell's fourth year TC grooming was specially prepared by Belichick to test his POISE. He purposely stacked the deck against Matt by playing him with the weakest scrubs on the line and at receiver, against the opponents First and Second stringers, if possible. Predictably, Cassell failed.

But BB wasn't interested in that. He wanted to see how his QB candidate would handle the pressure of ill fortune, implicitly acknowledging that Cassell had learned the playbook, had advanced far enough to merit it.

I thought BB did the same to Mallett against the Redskins who played their first stringers well into the second quarter. Mallett was given third, fourth, and fifth stringers to compete with, while the First stringers took the game off. Predictably he then failed, but he didn't stop trying.

Later Garoppolo had his third and fourths going against the weaker 'Skins thirds and fourths and did comparatively well. Don't forget, the 'Skins were a losing club in 2013 and didn't have a lot of talent and certainly not in their reserves. It served two purposes. It introduced Garoppolo to the idea that he could play in the League. It also served to increase the pressure on Mallett, just as Gutierez's artficially induced success increased the pressure on Cassell in 2008.

Cassell did not blow up and mouth off in 2008, neither did Mallett in 2014. Neither made excuses, threw anybody under the bus, nor complained of the unfairness of it all.

Against the much stronger Eagles, BB arranged to do the same. Jimmy G got the first stringers, and Mallett further was humiliated to come in in the second half along with the scrubs.

Mallett very professionally and CALMLY led the scrubs to scores which won the game. He fully utilized the limited talent he was given, ran and passed for scores. He demonstrated POISE throughout, including burning off the last four and a half minutes, without giving the ball back to the Eagles. It took discipline to use the run game, when Mallett, I'm sure, wanted to display his wonderful arm. Instead he demonstrated something more important. He closed out the Eagles in a masterful display of Winning football and game management.

I think Mallett is passing his Belichikian "Test of Job", with flying colors. Ryan will be a very valuable player to have for this Super Bowl quality club.

This is true, even if he never has to be called on for a single play.

Unlike 2008, there are more posters understanding what is going on, now. Plus Ryan Mallett just has more innate talent than Matt Cassell ever did. Still there are some fans braying to dump him for the proverbial pitcher of warm spit.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Braying away!

 

[hwc]

Kirwin's measuring stick for a good backup QB: Can he come in and go 2-2 for four game stretch in relief of the starter? If the answer is yes, your team has a good back up QB. If the starter is out for more than 4 games, it probably doesn't matter.

I never imagined the Pats would cut Mallett this year. But, Garropolo's performance in two preseason games has to give Belichick something to think about. It's the quick release. He's clearly the backup QB of the future (with upside beyond that). So, do you gain anything by keeping Mallett? I don't know. Can can only know when you see who the other cut would be and we aren't there yet.

I do agree that the 4-game suspensions for Tyms and Browner save Belichick from some tough roster decisions at the start of the season. I don't see how you cut Butler or Tyms, myself and I don't see how either of them could make it to the practice squad with the plays they've put on game tape for 31 other teams to see.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

hwc: The next 2 games should show what we gain by keeping Mallett. Unless he shows he's markedly better than JAG what is gained by keeping him?

 

[AzPatsFan]

hwc: The next 2 games should show what we gain by keeping Mallett. Unless he shows he's markedly better than JAG what is gained by keeping him?

Playing and even succeeding against scrubs in preseason, is completely different from playing against game-planned, first stringers. Veteran players who have had a week to learn your quirks and weaknesses to exploit. Especially when your repetoire of plays is incomplete, and your ability to diagnose hidden defenses and obscured traps is limited.

Not even TFB, the GOAT, could do so as a raw rookie. And he prepped at a big time college program, University of Michigan, not tiny Div III EIU.

 

[rookBoston]

Mallett is experienced in the system, healthy, affordable and committed. Why would BB cut him outright? He's smart and cheap QB insurance. Plus, just by sitting his ass on the bench all season and letting him walk in Free Agency next year, we're in line to get Compensatory Pick. If he signs with a really sucky team and gets a chance at a starting role, that would be a nice residual benefit from our long time backup QB.

If Garoppolo outperforms Mallett straight up... and some of the stuff Jimmy's been doing in preseason games does not look like a rookie just learning the playbook and adjusting to the speed of the game... then all it's going to take is for some team to offer up a moderate 2015 draft pick or a young TE that can catch, and g'bye!! This, because it would seem we already have Brady Quinn lined up on the shadow roster, to play the Testaverde role, run as QB2/3 and mitigate some of the risk.

Fair to say the jury is still out on Garoppolo, two preseason game in. But it's unfortunate that the kid's initials are JAG, because clearly he is not.

 

[Gwedd]

But there were a couple years when we had 4QB's available. Both Testaverde and Flutie were brought in as veterans to help mentor younger QB's that Coach wanted to bring along.

Look, money isn't any problem with the QB's here. They're a steal at their current signing salaries. I fully expect to see all three on the roster of the 53. Mallet will be here to be the seasoned back-up, ala Matt Cassel, in case Brady DOES get nicked up. Grappolo will be here to watch and learn, to see what playing a 16-game regular season is like, and all the work that goes into a pro-team. He'll have the year to learn ALL the playbook, and the philosophy behind it, so that when Mallet leaves, he can step into the role.

I just don't see either of the back-ups getting cut unless one of them goes full ****** all of a sudden, and no one ought to ever go full ******.

 

[Marinlik]

Mallett is experienced in the system, healthy, affordable and committed. Why would BB cut him outright? He's smart and cheap QB insurance. Plus, just by sitting his ass on the bench all season and letting him walk in Free Agency next year, we're in line to get Compensatory Pick. If he signs with a really sucky team and gets a chance at a starting role, that would be a nice residual benefit from our long time backup QB.

If Garoppolo outperforms Mallett straight up... and some of the stuff Jimmy's been doing in preseason games does not look like a rookie just learning the playbook and adjusting to the speed of the game... then all it's going to take is for some team to offer up a moderate 2015 draft pick or a young TE that can catch, and g'bye!! This, because it would seem we already have Brady Quinn lined up on the shadow roster, to play the Testaverde role, run as QB2/3 and mitigate some of the risk.

Fair to say the jury is still out on Garoppolo, two preseason game in. But it's unfortunate that the kid's initials are JAG, because clearly he is not.

You do understand that there is no such thing as the shadow roster, right? Most players won't sit there and ignore deals from other teams just to maybe get picked up by the Pats if an injury occurs. That's the sense I've gotten from people here on the "shadow roster". That players would be fully happy to just sit and wait for us to call them and ignore everything else just to help us. The shadow roster in reality is the team cutting a player, or bringing someone in for a workout, and then just pray that no other team pick him up.

Your shadow guy Quinn for example plays for the Dolphins.

 

[ralmat55]

BB is nothing if not stubborn. He's not going to let Houston get what would be their starting QB just by submitting a waiver claim. Mallet is either traded, or he'll be a Patriot in 2014.

 

[Ring 6]

What if it comes down to Mallet or Butler? Mallet or Tymes? Mallett or Velano?

Belichick is going to be faced with cutting good somewhere on the roster.

Mallet
Mallet
Mallet

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Playing and even succeeding against scrubs in preseason, is completely different from playing against game-planned, first stringers. Veteran players who have had a week to learn your quirks and weaknesses to exploit. Especially when your repetoire of plays is incomplete, and your ability to diagnose hidden defenses and obscured traps is limited.

Not even TFB, the GOAT, could do so as a raw rookie. And he prepped at a big time college program, University of Michigan, not tiny Div III EIU.

The Hammer has never in years shown what he can or cannot do against that level of NFL competition either. He had his best pre-season game last night. Decent, nothing so special. Not against the 1st string.

 

[supafly]

Like I've said before, I think that we should take comfort in the fact that Garappolo is looking like he has some talent and upside, and he may even be further along than most of us expected at this point in time.

That said, he's looked lost a lot in TC practices, and has limited experience with this system. I don't believe that he's suddenly done enough in preseason situations to warrant getting rid of our true backup QB, who knows the playbook, can make the proper reads/adjustments, and lead us to a .500 record should Brady go down for 4 games or so.

One way or another, this is one more compelling positional battle that we'll know the answer to in 2 wks.

 

[old 55]

I could see a scenario where BB has Browner & Tyms on the suspended list for 4 weeks and keeps 3 QBs, but only until having to bring Browner & Tyms onto the 53. The gamble is that someone loses their starting QB in weeks 1-4 and will work a trade with BB for Mallett. By then, we also may have (heaven forbid) had to put someone on IR which would free up a space. I saw a lot of guys out there on Friday that are trying their best to make this a difficult decision for BB.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

The Hammer has never in years shown what he can or cannot do against that level of NFL competition either. He had his best pre-season game last night. Decent, nothing so special. Not against the 1st string.

And equally importantly, not with the first-string offense, either.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

That said, he's looked lost a lot in TC practices, and has limited experience with this system. I don't believe that he's suddenly done enough in preseason situations to warrant getting rid of our true backup QB, who knows the playbook, can make the proper reads/adjustments, and lead us to a .500 record should Brady go down for 4 games or so.

I have no idea if Mallett can do this or not. What evidence supports this statement?

One way or another, this is one more compelling positional battle that we'll know the answer to in 2 wks.

I hope we, or especially BB, will know enough to make an informed decision.

 

[Off The Grid]

2005: Pats draft Cassel. Sign Flutie to mentor him.
2006: Cassel starts season as QB2. Pats sign Testaverde late in season as QB3 because, well, he's available, and he could help mentor Cassel, too.
2007: Cassel is QB2, and UDFA Gutierrez is QB3
2008: Cassel enters last year of his rookie contract. Pats draft O'Connell. Cassel ends up starter, O'Connell his backup, and Gutierrez sticks an extra year as QB3.
2009 (what should have been): O'Connell becomes QB2, and sticks around.
2009 (what actually happened): O'Connell regressed, gets cut; UDFA Hoyer impresses and wins QB2.
2010: Hoyer is QB2, there is no QB3.
2011: Hoyer enters last year of his contract. Pats draft Mallett. Hoyer sticks as QB2, Mallett is QB3.
2012: Hoyer is released, as they don't want to pay him $2M to be QB2/QB3. Mallett is QB2, there is no QB3.
2013: Mallett is QB2, there is no QB3.
2014: Mallett enters last year of his contract. Pats draft Garoppolo.

The pattern here seems to suggest two things.
(1) As long as Mallett justifies his salary, he'll be a Patriot. But if someone offers a high enough pick and Garoppolo continues to impress, Belichick might be comfortable enough to make the trade. [Note that his salary for 2014 is only $777K, so the Patriots will save <$300K if they release/trade him.]
(2) If Garoppolo continues to impress, the Patriots are not likely to spend a high pick on a QB until 2017.

Tremendous Work, Brother Huskie!!

Yeah, I'd say that both of your Predictions are clearly well-founded.

 

[supafly]

I have no idea if Mallett can do this or not. What evidence supports this statement?

It is speculative opinion only, PWP. You are right, I have no idea if Mallett could lead up to a 2-2 record or not. I just used the example proposed by someone else earlier in the thread which suggested a possible .500 record.

I find that to be reasonable enough, to be honest. I am not a huge fan of Mallett's talent, and I never thought he'd be traded for anything substantial. That said, I never thought he'd be traded--period; due to the fact that I believe our plan was to keep 3 QBs for the 2014 season.

It isn't done very often, but I don't believe that Belichick and company would feel too strongly about JAG's position in a real game setting, due to inexperience, a limited knowledge of the playbook/audibles, ability to read a defense/make checks, etc.

It may come down to Mallett having a lesser talent, but also having the ability to run more plays and having more experience--who knows?

 

[supafly]

Just for the record, I wasn't meaning to argue or debate your points re: Mallett. It was coincidental that I was responding to the thread and your comment popped up in the meantime, making mine appear to come right after.

I don't believe that we can make a "right" or "wrong" kind of opinion in this case to be honest. I think it's just going to come down to personal opinion. Mine is that we should keep 3 QBs. Belichick may not agree though, and that's the important thing.

 

[AzPatsFan]

The Hammer has never in years shown what he can or cannot do against that level of NFL competition either. He had his best pre-season game last night. Decent, nothing so special. Not against the 1st string.

Driving his second stringers to three TDs and a missed FG in only a half of play is not poor Quarterbacking. Closing them out with 4 and half minutes of grinding, and disciplined running while forcing FDs, shows superb game management and Winning, egoless, football.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

Just for the record, I wasn't meaning to argue or debate your points re: Mallett. It was coincidental that I was responding to the thread and your comment popped up in the meantime, making mine appear to come right after.

I don't believe that we can make a "right" or "wrong" kind of opinion in this case to be honest. I think it's just going to come down to personal opinion. Mine is that we should keep 3 QBs. Belichick may not agree though, and that's the important thing.

I disagree. Your opinion is right. Your recent vacillation is wrong.

I hope this clarifies matters.