A Texans fan says Patriots "borderline" cheated to neutralize Watt.

[Yehoodi]

it is too late in the night for me to read all of the posts . . . but i do think that the pats oline were holding the houston dline preventing them from getting any lift to go up and swat the balls . . .

not sure how often it happened, but i do know on one of the replays of a close missed swat, and the replay was down field looking back at the Brady and thus you could see the back of the houston DL, you could clearly see the OL for the pats grabbing, pulling and yanking down the back of his shirt and thus the player (bottom line the OL had his arm all the way around the waist of the DL and had his hand on his shirt down near his behind, a spot where a OL hands are not normally). . . that is holding plan and simple . . . any grab that prevents the player from voluntarily moving in a direction (here upwards) is holding . . .

surely it is more common when a player is trying to get around a OL and is held and preventing him from going towards the QB onhis own, or a LB trying to get off a block as the RB passes him and is held by a OL preventing him from a free release . . .

it was a creative game plan, I do know they got close to the DL and grabbed them, but pulling down on them is holding . . .

it is not cheating, but just that the refs missed some holding calls . . .

 

[CityOfChampions]

They actually had a close up at one point of how the O-line was holding Watt down from jumping for the block. Sheer coaching genius. I suppose you could call it holding but it would have been really hard to pick up.

As far as all of the PI's went... Hernandez's was ridiculous but the one I couldn't understand was the Arrington call against Johnson. Is it just me or did Andre jam his forehand into Kyle's face and hold it there the whole way down the field?

Gruden, barely watching, says good call and then even as they show the replay of Johnson pushing off for a good 5 yards he says there isn't any question about the penalty. I had a question. Why wasn't that offensive interference? It was a terrible call.

My problem is that everyone (ESPN and Texan fans keep blaming refs) keeps bringing up the bad PI call on Manning covering Welker which was still bad but more reasonable than the calls against Hernandez OPI and Arrington DPI.

 

[Deus Irae]

My problem is that everyone keeps bringing up the bad PI call on Manning covering Welker which was still bad but more reasonable then the calls against Hernandez OPI and Arrington DPI.

The PI call on the throw to Welker was not a bad call. It was the right call, all the way.

 

[Nikolai]

I really think people are all worked up about the Welker call because Gruden didn't like it...there's a term for that form of cognitive bias, but at this hour, I can't recall it.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

it is too late in the night for me to read all of the posts . . . but i do think that the pats oline were holding the houston dline preventing them from getting any lift to go up and swat the balls . . .

not sure how often it happened, but i do know on one of the replays of a close missed swat, and the replay was down field looking back at the Brady and thus you could see the back of the houston DL, you could clearly see the OL for the pats grabbing, pulling and yanking down the back of his shirt and thus the player (bottom line the OL had his arm all the way around the waist of the DL and had his hand on his shirt down near his behind, a spot where a OL hands are not normally). . . that is holding plan and simple . . . any grab that prevents the player from voluntarily moving in a direction (here upwards) is holding . . .

surely it is more common when a player is trying to get around a OL and is held and preventing him from going towards the QB onhis own, or a LB trying to get off a block as the RB passes him and is held by a OL preventing him from a free release . . .

it was a creative game plan, I do know they got close to the DL and grabbed them, but pulling down on them is holding . . .

it is not cheating, but just that the refs missed some holding calls . . .

There was quite a bit of holding go on both ways, they seemed to have called the ones that directly affected the play and let the other ones go, either that or they just missed them.

 

[TruthSeeker]

it is too late in the night for me to read all of the posts . . . but i do think that the pats oline were holding the houston dline preventing them from getting any lift to go up and swat the balls . . .

not sure how often it happened, but i do know on one of the replays of a close missed swat, and the replay was down field looking back at the Brady and thus you could see the back of the houston DL, you could clearly see the OL for the pats grabbing, pulling and yanking down the back of his shirt and thus the player (bottom line the OL had his arm all the way around the waist of the DL and had his hand on his shirt down near his behind, a spot where a OL hands are not normally). . . that is holding plan and simple . . . any grab that prevents the player from voluntarily moving in a direction (here upwards) is holding . . .

surely it is more common when a player is trying to get around a OL and is held and preventing him from going towards the QB onhis own, or a LB trying to get off a block as the RB passes him and is held by a OL preventing him from a free release . . .

it was a creative game plan, I do know they got close to the DL and grabbed them, but pulling down on them is holding . . .

it is not cheating, but just that the refs missed some holding calls . . .

The holding that isn't called in the NFL is ridiculous. So practically every blocker holds on every play. It's expected - and there are unspoken "rules" about what is acceptable vs. unacceptable holding. Of course, it got this way because refs don't want to throw flags all the time. This type of refereeing has made NBA basketball almost unwatchable for me with the constant traveling and palming - but it's tough to contain and it grows more out of control every year.

The holding you're talking about is almost certainly of the "acceptable" variety. The Patriots are just using the way that the rules are enforced to minimize Houston's strength at blocking/tipping passes. Interesting to be aware of but probably won't be flagged even 1% of the time.

 

[IllegalContact]

mexicans are borderline texans

 

[Funktopus]

The PI call on the throw to Welker was not a bad call. It was the right call, all the way.

I thought so too. I rewatched the game last night. 2 things stuck out.
- The ref threw the flag out pronto. Didn't hesitate. Like it was a no brainer.
- The angle the we see on the replay is (obviously) different that that of the ref that threw the flag. I bet it looked even worse from his spot.

 

[crypto]

man guys the days were slipping by and i was getting worried no one would ever complain about the pats slapping around another team

 

[The Gr8est]

The holding that isn't called in the NFL is ridiculous. So practically every blocker holds on every play. It's expected - and there are unspoken "rules" about what is acceptable vs. unacceptable holding. Of course, it got this way because refs don't want to throw flags all the time. This type of refereeing has made NBA basketball almost unwatchable for me with the constant traveling and palming - but it's tough to contain and it grows more out of control every year.

The holding you're talking about is almost certainly of the "acceptable" variety. The Patriots are just using the way that the rules are enforced to minimize Houston's strength at blocking/tipping passes. Interesting to be aware of but probably won't be flagged even 1% of the time.

Not to hijack the thread, but would the regular refs likely have considered Gronk's hold against Arizona to be "acceptable holding"?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Not to hijack the thread, but would the regular refs likely have considered Gronk's hold against Arizona to be "acceptable holding"?

they also would have called Gost's game ending FG vs the Ratbirds "Good!"

/hijack

 

[longhornsk57]

I think you have to at least show up in order to attempt to complain about the refs in the game. No team losing by 4 TDs has ANY right to complain about anything other than their own poor performance. If the game was even remotely close I could see this being a conversation, but honestly any Texans fan complaining about the reffing needs to redirect his complaints to the poor coaching and unpreparedness the team showed. It's not like that PI call changed the whole game anyways, how about Schaub not throwing it to McCourty and hitting a wide open Foster instead? Or Kareem Jackson actually pulling in the fumbled he landed on? Or anyone on the D Line showing up besides Watt? Maybe Wade should have gotten off that man to man when the pass rush wasn't doing anything against a HOF quarterback?

A questionable PI should be the last thing any Texans fan complains about.

 

[IllegalContact]

I thought so too. I rewatched the game last night. 2 things stuck out.
- The ref threw the flag out pronto. Didn't hesitate. Like it was a no brainer.
- The angle the we see on the replay is (obviously) different that that of the ref that threw the flag. I bet it looked even worse from his spot.

if a DB runs in front of a WR like that, they will throw the flag 100% of the time

 

[Joker]

I think you have to at least show up in order to attempt to complain about the refs in the game. No team losing by 4 TDs has ANY right to complain about anything other than their own poor performance. If the game was even remotely close I could see this being a conversation, but honestly any Texans fan complaining about the reffing needs to redirect his complaints to the poor coaching and unpreparedness the team showed. It's not like that PI call changed the whole game anyways, how about Schaub not throwing it to McCourty and hitting a wide open Foster instead? Or Kareem Jackson actually pulling in the fumbled he landed on? Or anyone on the D Line showing up besides Watt? Maybe Wade should have gotten off that man to man when the pass rush wasn't doing anything against a HOF quarterback?

A questionable PI should be the last thing any Texans fan complains about.

I'd be a hypocrite if I said I don't complain about calls.I'm STILL complaining about the 2007 Super Bowl 4th quarter uncalled in the grasp and tackling of the D line on that miracle catch. I don't think anyone here begrudges any fan of another team the right to vent their sour grapes...except the Jet fans...they can FOAD.....

 

[Raymond]

On the Texans fans from the bullpen. Many accept their team was not prepared.

Not only did the Patriots find it odd, so did I. Without nameing names many on the Texans sideline saw a look of shell shocked in the Texans before kickoff. They said NE players at the coin toss knew we were not ready for the game. I think they mentioned Cushing as 1 player on our sideline that said we looked unready before we even came out. This is my favorite one.

Antonio Smith said that the look in the Patriots' eyes at the opening coin toss reminded him of a scene from the movie "Troy", when Achilles told Hector:
"Now you know who you're fighting."

610 AM reports many people on Texans sideline Monday night saw.... - Page 2 - Houston Texans Message Boards

 

[Haley]

I really think people are all worked up about the Welker call because Gruden didn't like it...there's a term for that form of cognitive bias, but at this hour, I can't recall it.

Grudenism? Seriously, that guy needed to put a sock in it. Each time one of these obviously biased comments escaped his over active lips I just wanted to puke. For a guy who watches as much film as he does, you would really think he would have a better handle on PI. But even he admitted he needed a clinic on PI during the game, leaving me to wonder why he is commenting on these calls at all.

 

[longhornsk57]

I'd be a hypocrite if I said I don't complain about calls.I'm STILL complaining about the 2007 Super Bowl 4th quarter uncalled in the grasp and tackling of the D line on that miracle catch. I don't think anyone here begrudges any fan of another team the right to vent their sour grapes...except the Jet fans...they can FOAD.....

Yeah but you guys were not down by so many points. If that PI happens in the 4th when we have a chance to win then I might be upset, but it literally had zero impact on the game.

 

[CityOfChampions]

On the Texans fans from the bullpen. Many accept their team was not prepared.

Not only did the Patriots find it odd, so did I. Without nameing names many on the Texans sideline saw a look of shell shocked in the Texans before kickoff. They said NE players at the coin toss knew we were not ready for the game. I think they mentioned Cushing as 1 player on our sideline that said we looked unready before we even came out. This is my favorite one.

Antonio Smith said that the look in the Patriots' eyes at the opening coin toss reminded him of a scene from the movie "Troy", when Achilles told Hector:
"Now you know who you're fighting."

610 AM reports many people on Texans sideline Monday night saw.... - Page 2 - Houston Texans Message Boards

"Many"? I've seen majority blame refs.

 

[76Texan]

On the Texans fans from the bullpen. Many accept their team was not prepared.

Not only did the Patriots find it odd, so did I. Without nameing names many on the Texans sideline saw a look of shell shocked in the Texans before kickoff. They said NE players at the coin toss knew we were not ready for the game. I think they mentioned Cushing as 1 player on our sideline that said we looked unready before we even came out. This is my favorite one.

Antonio Smith said that the look in the Patriots' eyes at the opening coin toss reminded him of a scene from the movie "Troy", when Achilles told Hector:
"Now you know who you're fighting."

610 AM reports many people on Texans sideline Monday night saw.... - Page 2 - Houston Texans Message Boards

Please come to the texanstalk MB.

It's a long story, but if you want to know the pulse, ya know.

Go where the real locals go.

 

[PATSNUTme]

I thought so too. I rewatched the game last night. 2 things stuck out.
- The ref threw the flag out pronto. Didn't hesitate. Like it was a no brainer.
- The angle the we see on the replay is (obviously) different that that of the ref that threw the flag. I bet it looked even worse from his spot.

I agree. Just because Jon,Nothing but Love,Gruden says so, doesn't make it so.

What part of it was not PI? Gruden says "uncatchable"- that is no longer a rule. BTW, how do we know it was uncatchable? Welkers progress to the ball was stopped cold. Had he been able to run at full stride, it could have been caught.