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A Test of Patriotism...

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatriotsReign, Jul 11, 2009.

  1. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    Ask yourself these 3 quesions;

    Do I wish for complete success for our president?
    Would I wish for the same success if he were from the "other" party
    Have I wished equally hard for the success of all the presidents in my lifetime?

    Answer all 3 "Yes" and you're a patriot. Answer any of the 3 "No" and you're not a Patriotic American.
     
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    That's wrong if you believe that complete success for the president will result in never ending doom. Complete success for obama = national health care with the government putting insurers out of business and massive energy bills so he can claim success with cap & tax.

    THAT is complete success for him. I don't want it nor do I wish for it. That makes me more of a Patriot than idiots who want his crap to pass just because he has a D after his name.
     
  3. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    Ok...you got me on your point. I SHOULD have said;

    1. Do I wish for complete success for our country under this president?
    2. Would I wish for the same success of our country if the POTUS were from the "other" party
    3. Have I wished equally hard for the success of America under all the presidents in my lifetime?
     
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I still don't buy it because "success for our country" could come from his silly plans but I believe it would be temporary (artificial stimuli tend to do that) and, therefore, unpatriotic to root for.

    I'm with Rush, I wish obama the least amount of success possible - and that makes me a Patriot.
     
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think a lot of it depends on what one means by success. Our leaders do not necessarily have the same goals. Democrats tend to emphasize lifting everyone who works or is legitimately needy into a better quality of life, while Republicans want to make sure that those who work hardest get the best rewards. Democrats want to make our nation better by addressing those problems that affect us all -- such as health care, environment, education, unemployment, etc. Republicans want to make our country better by lowering taxes. Republicans are basically about money and protecting the status quo (circa 1950), and not much else. If the Republicans truly succeeded, then we might have fewer rights for minorities, more suffering by poor kids, more attention given to punishing the criminal than preventing crime, and so on. That said, I never wanted Bush to fail, but believed in all my heart that his ideas would lead to failure by the measure I believe in.
     
  6. efin98

    efin98 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I only wish him the best of luck, same as I wished for the previous three new Presidents since I was born.

    How you view patriotism is different from my view which is different from anyone else, I don't need to answer "yes" to any of those to know if I'm a patriotic American.
     
  7. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv In the Starting Line-Up

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    I do not agree with your statement that you must answer to all 3 to be a patriot.


    A true test would be...

    Do I wish for complete success for America, in that she continues to uphold liberty, justice and freedom for all?

    Do I understand that the President is only 1/3 of the federal government and lumping all my fears and hopes on to 1 facet of my federal government in hoping that he/she will elect massive cultural change that is inline with my beliefs, is not only probably not going to happen, and a wate of time when trying to bring about long lasting change for a republic that defines it self on main street, not Pennsylvania Ave...

    If you answer Yes to both of these, good for you, and if you answer no to these, you are also Patriotic, as you are free to believe in the American Dream however you see fit for yourself.
     
  8. PatsFanInMaine

    PatsFanInMaine Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I think a far better barometer would be how much are you willing to sacrifice for the good of the country.
     
  9. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv In the Starting Line-Up

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    How much are you willing to sacrifice to protect and uphold the constitution?
     
  10. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's also worth saying that I, for one, am a turncoat of sorts. I think, peering back through the mists of time, that I felt toward Reagan pretty much as others here think about Obama. Gotcha moment for you.

    However, I KNOW, peering through less misty mists, that I had matured by the time of George II, and was wishing for our success versus terrorists, versus economic headwinds, etc etc etc. I did not get my wish.

    So I suppose I am not a lifelong patriot by your barometer, but a convert who's earned his stripes in the last 10-20 years pretty convincingly.

    I would also plead something like the McGraw defense in re: Reagan. I did, in fact, turn out to be right about the disasterous long-term impact of his policies and rhetoric, by my lights. But your key insight here is one should not root for a U.S. president to "fail," to salvage one's ideology.

    Ideologies are far too brittle; praying for the leadership's success -- whatever the party -- is a pretty damn wise starting point. In any given confab of events, they might be right, after all.

    Just as likely as you... and America's in their hands, to a great extent, once they are in power. That's what being in power means.

    It's also absolutely right and appropriate to have a loyal opposition. That ain't the same thing as a bunch of yahoos threatening secession and revolution if they think they might have a 10 dollar/paycheck tax hike (and with nothing to back up that suspicion, I might add.)
     
  11. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    I just want our country and society to thrive......

    success to one person may not be so to another..........I don't believe that national health care equates to success because I already have it as does everyone I know...........the only thing I can suggest to a person who doesn't have is that in order to be successful, you needs to get off your arse and improve your life

    I believe our country would be more successful regardless of president and none of these things would be an issue if we didn't have so many lazy people wanting something out of our government or live to get more out of every situation than they put into it

    there's a much simpler question to ask.......when it comes to politics, 'are you a hypocrite?'
     
  12. godef

    godef In the Starting Line-Up

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    It ain't that simple. If a president is dead WRONG about something but you follow his lead on it without question, that is not patriotism. Merriam-Webster defines patriotism as "love for or devotion to one's country". If I feel a president is morally corrupt for allowing torture, I can still condider myself a patriot, though others may disagree. So you can see it's an extremely subjective concept. I believe there may be a test out there, but I don't think this is it, and I have none of my own to offer.
     
  13. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    Ahhh...Patters? I think the part in bold is what "should be" no matter what party you come from. Of course those who are willing to work the hardest should reap the best rewards. Are you for everyone getting "about the same" no matter how much effort you put in?

    What is your philosophy of a reward system?
     
  14. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    Unless you always want America to be successful, then NO ONE can be patriotic...so you DO have answer "Yes" to all 3 efin...there's no way around it bro.
     
  15. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    I did not say one should base all their hopes in the office of POTUS. I said a patriot must hope for national success no matter who the president is. So that would also mean, no matter who is in congress. your state house and your local representative.

    What I'm REALLY saying is that if one secretly wishes for national failures because their person is not in office, that person can't be a patriot.

    Patriotism has NOTHING to do with party aliances because our constitution has nothing to do with them....NOTHING AT ALL. Capiche mon freres?
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2009
  16. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    I think if you had read my second post in this thread, you'd find we agree:

    Is that better?
     
  17. Michael

    Michael Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Yep, that's the part of it that they don't get. Richard Cloward and Frances Fox Piven would have made great patriots in the Obama world I guess. ;)
     
  18. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    I hope he's so successful that I can't wait to vote him for another term but I have to explain that. I hope he's chosen and will choose the right policies to fix the economy, environment has a successful foreign policy. That doesn't mean if it starts to look obvious that some policies are wrong that we don't have a right to question them. I’d like to remind everyone of one of the more favorite slogans used during the Bush administration, which was "decent is the highest form of patriotism."

    At the same time I hope the administration will adjust as needed and not just stay the course.
    I think the worst president and doomed to fail crowd is way to impatient right now but they do make some good points too. They shouldn't just be brushed off as people hating a black president.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2009
  19. efin98

    efin98 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    No I do not. Patriotism isn't measured by those things, not to me. I don't need to answer "yes" to any of them to be a patriot.
     
  20. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Patriotism to me ... was simply defined by the great John F. Kennedy.

    "And so, my fellow Americans: ask not
    what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country".
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2009

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