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A Socialist says Obama is not..

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by DarrylS, Mar 15, 2009.

  1. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A political activist socialist writes an op ed articl saying that Obama is not one of them.. and it is all a convenient right wing talking point..

    washingtonpost.com

  2. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Yeah, and I'm sure if Stalin were alive he'd write that Obama is "not a communist", either.

    It's a meaningless argument to say that just because one self-avowed socialist does not recognize Obama as a socialist that makes Obama the new incarnation of Adam Smith.

    This entire argument is a non-sequitor.


    In other news, Ray Lewis says "Tedy Bruschi plays like a girl." Sports writers said "Randy Moss is done" 2 years ago, and Bill Clinton once said Obama's economic ideas were "pure fantasy".

    Next!!!!


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  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Spend some time reading the Socialist Worker, there is no love for Obama there either.. your argument once again relies on hysteria..

    The return of socialism? | SocialistWorker.org

  4. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    And again: the "Socialist Worker"'s viewpoint on Obama's socialist agenda is just that: the Socialist Worker's viewpoint. Are we not all entitled to OUR viewpoints on Obama, or anyone else???? Do we need to read, accept, and follow what someone ELSE says about something in order to form our own opinion?????


    And you call ME "brainwashed" !!!!! :wha:



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  5. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Who would know better?? The socialist worker or an agenda driven preacher??

    You believe that your views are the truth and cannot be disputed, because you are the Unification Expert.. if I were to come back and say after reading a couple of books on Unificationism that I was a Uni expert, would you accept my views?? I know not...

    The world does not work they way you want it to work, it works on facts..
  6. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    Big whoop, this is the political equivalent of Kermit telling Dr. Teeth.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    .
    "Hey man, you ain't as green as me"
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Just One Socialist Helping out Another


    Undercover Cop Tells Another cop,
    "don't tell them i'm a cop"
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2009
  8. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's been a non-issue except amont the loonies since the McCain campaign threw this particular bit of "muck" during the campaign. As the guy above said, "what's more, he may not even be a liberal."

    I like the guy, but he's a left-centrist pragmatist. People who are busy screamin wahhhhhh he's a socialist he's a socialist really need to define their terms. Last I heard from the GOP, they think having taxes is socialist (their "proof" of the theorem during the election... "oh no, the rich might pay more taxes!!!")

    News flash: that ain't socialism. He'd be trying to move back toward the policy under the "socialists" Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon.

    PFnV
  9. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    [size=+5] Can anybody say, "spin cycle"????

    For every season ..... turn, turn, turn......

    There is a reason ..... spin, spin , spin...... :singing: .... :singing: [/size]


    It's pure smoke and mirrors. "How to con a rube in 30 seconds. "

    Anybody who believes this: I got a real nice bridge for sale. It's right down there in New York, between Brooklyn and Manhattan. You'll love it!!!


    :yeeha:

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  10. godef

    godef Rookie

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    There's no logic to this what so ever. A girl is a girl, and obviously saying Tedy plays like one is strictly hyperbole. Using your logic, I can sit here and say black is white, which it clearly is not. You are confusing facts with opinion.

    There clearly is a definition of socialist (OK, I'm too lazy to look it up, but we can agree there is one). The point being is, you are or you aren't, or perhaps you are partially. Now, when I read that socialists don't believe Obama is one of them, I lend some credence to this; why would they denounce the idea that the POTUS is one of them? I would expect to see them jumping for joy. To not do so would be akin to accepting someone saying that I am no liberal or you are no conservative.
  11. PatsFanInVa

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    If I type in bigger letters it must be true.

    How about discussing the actual facts of the matter. For example:

    - Socialist stance on medicine: Single-payer system, like the Brits and Canadians have. Obama has not moved toward a single-payer system, and is more concerned with cutting medical costs than committing to equality of access.

    - Socialist stance on troubled industries: Nationalization. Bush's regime was actually more Socialist than the Obama administration, which has resisted nationalization.

    - Socialist stance on general economic theory: rationalized government guidance in all sectors. Obama's stance: return the viability of our market economy.

    I will be the first person to say, I think he is probably off the mark, long-term; just less off the mark than the fantasy-embracing free-market purists who are idiotic enough to call him a Socialist.

    In the end, the term has to have a meaning. Since everything larger than a libertarian commune (now there's a contradiction in terms) would have a mixed economy -- with features of market and command economies mixed via a variety of mechanisms -- you have to define what you mean by "Socialist."

    Since Obama's "Socialism" has just been shouted but never defined (other than the scandalous suggestion of returning the top marginal tax bracket to the level it was at under Clinton, and to below the level it was under Reagan,) I am not so certain I understand the charge, other than its name-calling value.

    I am, however, somewhat optimistic that the idiots shouting "Socialist!" will condition the country to think "Oh, that's all Socialism is? Well that's not so bad, compared to how market capitalism effed us over. Let's go with that..."

    ...perhaps getting us to a mixed model that is sustainable for decades, rather than these continual bubbles and pyramid schemes favored by the snake-oil salesman the oligarchs habitually thrust upon us.

    PFnV
  12. godef

    godef Rookie

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    Foggie, the spin is all from you. You say BO is socialist. Living socialists say he is not. You literally don't know what you're talking about.
  13. PatsFanInVa

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    Oh and by the way, both the song and the verse from Ecclesiastes say "For everything/there is a season," not "For every reason there is a season." You should read/listen more closely.
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2009
  14. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Socialist Barry,
    Wait until he really gets going.

    When is the first family getting their new puppy, that one should dominate the news for about 8 months, Chris "Mush Mouth" Matthews legs will go crazy, he will have to be sedated to stop them from kicking Andrea Mitchell in the stomach.

    Headline NY Times:
    THE OBAMA'S NEW PUPPY:
    The First Dog had three bowel movements today, Vice President Biden who's job it is each day to walk the new puppy around the White House Lawn said "the stools were great, they were firm and brown with just a trace of Oatmeal in them" Windbag Biden also said "it is his job to train the new puppy not to have sex with The Messiah's leg while he's playing with his basketball.
    When Queen Elizabeth was told about the "New Obama Puppy" she said she was thrilled as were many other world leaders, "this is a great step forward for humanity" said Kim Chow Dong the famous Chinese water buffalo trainer, Mr Dong also said "the world loves barack"

    President Barry's brothers, George and Zingoba sent an E-Mail from a library somewhere in Africa saying "we glad you got dog"

    :bricks:
  15. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And I thought that it was a sign of ED.... or small minds..
  16. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    :rofl::rofl::rofl:
  17. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    "Socialism", in and of itself is neutral; it's how the philosophy is implemented -- through heavy-handed coercion or through popular will -- that determines whether it is good socialism or simply communism lite.

    The point is, as you have yourself indicated, the definition of socialism is debatable. The Soviets and the Chinese each called the other "false socialists" during the 1950s and early 60s, massing armies of millions on their common border, for example.


    Btw, I never called Obama a "socialist", though his health care idea and his ideas to nationalize the auto and other indutries are clearly what I would call "socialist". Others can label him that, if they want, though. The term, "socialist", is vague and slippery enough that it could be applied to everybody from US Grant to Geo W Bush; so why not Obama!

    Point is: If hard-core professional socialists, like the old Soviets and the Chi-coms, cannot agree, then it's clearly a vague term that demands further elucidation.

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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2009
  18. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    [size=+4]Not necessarily, but it does seem to make some peoples' heads explode!!! :D[/size]


    :rofl:..............................:yeeha:.......................................:singing:


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  19. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Which one???
  20. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It is worth noting that Socialism is an Economic rather than political system, as Foggy has alluded. Democratic Socialism is not just a term made up for countries that are neither. Of course, if you elect non-Socialists, you have trouble maintaining the Democratic Socialist character of such a country, unless you embed socialist principles in your constitution.

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