A simple experiment deflates deflate gate

[Dr Pain]

I appreciate all this science Mumbo Jumbo, but how do you explain the Colt's footballs were compliant and the Pat's footballs weren't ? They were both out there in the SAME weather. THE ONLY way weather can be used as an excuse is that the Colt's footballs started at 13.5 psi and the weather dropped 1 psi to the compliant 12.5, and the Pat's footballs started at 12.5 and weather dropped them to 11.5. Anything under 11.5 kills the weather excuse.

That is if they were tested before hand. The Colts could have set theirs to 14 PSI before the game or they could have inflated them outside in the cold so they would not deflate later. Very simple explanations here. Colts knew this was going to happen remember.

 

[Trycked]

I appreciate all this science Mumbo Jumbo, but how do you explain the Colt's footballs were compliant and the Pat's footballs weren't ? They were both out there in the SAME weather. THE ONLY way weather can be used as an excuse is that the Colt's footballs started at 13.5 psi and the weather dropped 1 psi to the compliant 12.5, and the Pat's footballs started at 12.5 and weather dropped them to 11.5. Anything under 11.5 kills the weather excuse.

SIMPLE,
the Colts didn't use their game balls most of the time, they spent most of their time on the sidelines getting blown out.

 

[Big-T]

I appreciate all this science Mumbo Jumbo, but how do you explain the Colt's footballs were compliant and the Pat's footballs weren't ? They were both out there in the SAME weather. THE ONLY way weather can be used as an excuse is that the Colt's footballs started at 13.5 psi and the weather dropped 1 psi to the compliant 12.5, and the Pat's footballs started at 12.5 and weather dropped them to 11.5. Anything under 11.5 kills the weather excuse.

Ignoring the "Colts knew about it" stuff, that can be put down to science just as easily.

The officials will have obviously checked the Patriots gameballs first because they were the ones that got the complaint, so by the time that was done with the Colts ones will have had time to warm back up and gain more internal pressure. You saw how much the PSI dropped in that short video, it's very plausible.

 

[reflexblue]

I appreciate all this science Mumbo Jumbo, but how do you explain the Colt's footballs were compliant and the Pat's footballs weren't ? They were both out there in the SAME weather. THE ONLY way weather can be used as an excuse is that the Colt's footballs started at 13.5 psi and the weather dropped 1 psi to the compliant 12.5, and the Pat's footballs started at 12.5 and weather dropped them to 11.5. Anything under 11.5 kills the weather excuse.

Well that's is a possibility

 

[Brewskies]

We will never know the truth. They, the NFL, are over their heads with this and wish this never went down this path. We have been told they were under under inflated by 2 pounds. Is that 2 pounds from 13.5 or 2 pounds from 12.5? You can do the math as stated above 2 pounds from 13.5 is 11.5 out of specs but only by 1 pound. As also stated above Colts fill their balls to 13.5 and the Pats do theirs yo 12.5. They both lose a pound the Colts are on spec and the Pats aren't. I have said this before I have a new truck with 20" tires that have gaiges in them. I know a 20" tire is bigger than a football but the football takes 13 pounds of air and the tire takes 39 pounds. So the 20 inch tire is 3 times more. This morning the temp outside was 22 degrees and my tires all register 36 pound each down 3 pounds. As I drove around they warmed up by a degree but not at the same time and finally they reached 39 pounds and just stayed there at the proper psi. So the cold effected them equally by 3 pounds each. If the footballs did the same and started at 12.5 they would go down 1 pound each and be out of spec. If the Colts set theres at 13.5 they would be at 12.5 and still in spec. This crap needs to end, no fines or draft loses. Lets move on. NFL stop dragging your feet you over your head.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

 

[reflexblue]

 

[VJCPatriot]

Agreed. Putting conspiracy theories aside, it's not hard to see a situation where both Pats and Colts footballs deflated due to the weather, but since the Pats balls start at the minimum of the spectrum they went 'out of spec' whereas the Colts balls remained in spec. There is no context given to the '2 lbs difference' statement. Is it 2 lbs from the max spec or is it 2 lbs from the minimum spec? Or was it a rough estimate and it was actually 1.5 lbs psi as the science experiments shown above would lead us to expect?

We will never know the truth. They, the NFL, are over their heads with this and wish this never went down this path. We have been told they were under under inflated by 2 pounds. Is that 2 pounds from 13.5 or 2 pounds from 12.5? You can do the math as stated above 2 pounds from 13.5 is 11.5 out of specs but only by 1 pound. As also stated above Colts fill their balls to 13.5 and the Pats do theirs yo 12.5. They both lose a pound the Colts are on spec and the Pats aren't. I have said this before I have a new truck with 20" tires that have gaiges in them. I know a 20" tire is bigger than a football but the football takes 13 pounds of air and the tire takes 39 pounds. So the 20 inch tire is 3 times more. This morning the temp outside was 22 degrees and my tires all register 36 pound each down 3 pounds. As I drove around they warmed up by a degree but not at the same time and finally they reached 39 pounds and just stayed there at the proper psi. So the cold effected them equally by 3 pounds each. If the footballs did the same and started at 12.5 they would go down 1 pound each and be out of spec. If the Colts set theres at 13.5 they would be at 12.5 and still in spec. This crap needs to end, no fines or draft loses. Lets move on. NFL stop dragging your feet you over your head.

 

[mosi]

The question I keep asking is what does the NFL do to prevent a pressure drop as the temperature drops. For the colts ball, the temperature drop (say from 70 to 50) should have dropped the ball pressure by about a 1. If they kept it at 13 PSI, that would result in 12 PSI ball. Why did they not see this? The colts balls should have deflated once taken outside. If not, that is odd and suggest some sort of human intervention.

 

[Observer]

Some of you guys are way too hung up on the Colts balls. That is a DISTRACTION. The only fact that matters is that a ball inflated to regulation pressure at 75 F will be out of spec at 50F. That is scientific FACT. Investigate the Colts why theirs aren't out of spec.

 

[pork3]

This is a rallying cry.

**** THEM.
**** THEM ALL.

It's us against them, and as far as I'm concerned, they can go **** themselves.

We didn't cheat.
We didn't deflate balls.
We're the better team, and we'll ****ing demolish the Seahawks in the superbowl.

Hear me now PatsFans. We will destroy the Seahawks.
This is our time, this is our destiny.

-Jamman

 

[BradyFTW!]

I'm not proud to admit how many times I had to read that title before it made sense.

 

[mosi]

Some of you guys are way too hung up on the Colts balls. That is a DISTRACTION. The only fact that matters is that a ball inflated to regulation pressure at 75 F will be out of spec at 50F. That is scientific FACT. Investigate the Colts why theirs aren't out of spec.

Yup, that is my point. Their balls should have dropped almost out of spec but they did not. The easiest explanation is that they over-inflatted them to prevent it from happening. I think BB knows it as he mentioned over-inflatting balls to make sure they don't drop below.

 

[hwc]

I appreciate all this science Mumbo Jumbo, but how do you explain the Colt's footballs were compliant and the Pat's footballs weren't ? They were both out there in the SAME weather. THE ONLY way weather can be used as an excuse is that the Colt's footballs started at 13.5 psi and the weather dropped 1 psi to the compliant 12.5, and the Pat's footballs started at 12.5 and weather dropped them to 11.5. Anything under 11.5 kills the weather excuse.

Were the Colts balls inflated and stored in the warm team hotel? Or kept in the cold team equipment truck? The Pats balls were prepared and handed to the officials from the heated Patriots offices.

But, none of that matters unless the NFL can provide the actual PSIs for all of the balls when Mr. Whipple tested them 2 hours before the game.

 

[PatsFanNM]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that, in addition to the possibility that the officials didn't actually measure each of the 24 balls but only felt them, it's also possible that more than one pressure gauge was used at different times.

As a former auto mechanic, I'm acutely aware of the difference between different measuring devices. Others have pointed out that measuring something with air pressure in it usually involves a slight loss of air. When adjusting the pressure in a tire it's amazing how little air escaping it takes to drop the pressure by two or three psi (takes a lot longer to put air into a tire, because of the resistance provided by the air pressure already in the tire).

If the NFL really thought air pressure in footballs was a big issue, and wanted to be completely sure they got it right for every game, there would have to be a fairly elaborate procedure: a) under some standard condition (same temperature every time, say 72), every ball gets checked with the same gauge, which has been recently calibrated and is graduated in tenths of a pound; b) any ball that falls outside of the 12.5-13.5 psi range gets inflated or deflated so that it meets spec; c) any problems found on a routine basis is communicated back to the team and possibly to the league so that other groups of officials can be alert to the possibility of this problem in the future. Then either the footballs or a document gets signed off by the officials. If need be, for whatever reason, the balls can be re-checked during the game under identical conditions, and using the same gauge.

Was this done for the AFC Championship Game? I'd be very surprised it's ever done in a scientifically verifiable manner. The officials have a lot to do before a game (Peter King's story last year is useful in documenting just how much). Maybe they just glance at the gauge to make sure the pressure is pretty close. Maybe they don't even use a gauge. Maybe they have four officials checking the balls so that it doesn't take too long, and they each have a different gauge, any of which might differ from the others by as much as 0.5 psi (not unlikely at all, depending on the quality of the equipment they use).

And the reason they might be this casual about the whole process is that the exact air pressure in the ball doesn't matter very much. Certainly not as much as whether it's rainy or dry, windy or calm, cold or warm in the stadium. Many quarterbacks have said they don't really notice, and others have demonstrated they can't really tell the difference between a 11-psi ball and a 13-psi ball.

Completely bizarre that this gets so much attention, and that former players are claiming that Brady's legacy is in tatters. Bizarre.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Here's the Sports Science Video that ESPN took down because it scientifically demonstrates that the PSI doesn't make that much of a difference.



Nutshell:
-Ability to grip < 1mm
-Ability to apply more force to grip 1.5%
-Difference in weight < 1 dollar bill

Cons
-Slows speed of ball
-Allows defenders additional time to close on ball by about 1"

Conclusion
Very doubtful it affected performance
The rain probably affected the actual performance a lot more than the PSI.

Funny how ESPN took it down from their website, when the conclusion didn't support their agenda that Deflate-Gate is a BIG FREAKING DEAL!

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that, in addition to the possibility that the officials didn't actually measure each of the 24 balls but only felt them, it's also possible that more than one pressure gauge was used at different times.

As a former auto mechanic, I'm acutely aware of the difference between different measuring devices. Others have pointed out that measuring something with air pressure in it usually involves a slight loss of air. When adjusting the pressure in a tire it's amazing how little air escaping it takes to drop the pressure by two or three psi (takes a lot longer to put air into a tire, because of the resistance provided by the air pressure already in the tire).

Iv'e mentioned it here numerous times. This is not a shot at you as it is impossible to keep up with the posts.

I'm an engineer and have expounded in these threads on the theme of instrumental error and calibration.
I agree with your post and agree that there's no way that the NFL felt they had to do this kind of scientific accuracy. They foist this on themselves by leaking information that drove the media into a frenzy instead of telling the Colts, their employees etc. to STFU until they got a handle on the situation.

The ignorance of basic science and applied technology is paradoxical in our technical world.